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    My DD14 has always have a problems about keeping friends. It's easy for her to make a bunch because she is funny and outgoing but keeping one seems immposible. she sees flaws in people and gets frustrated when they are missing something like morals, integrity, fairness and diligent. She doesn't share her opinions about what she thinks they are doing wrong but her friends might pick up a cue of her frustration from here and there. Also, most of her friends are jealous of her achievements and wittiness. They would try to talk her out or tease her from being so hardworking and smart. They hurt her feelings from time to time(DD14 is very sensitive too)

    DD14 is taking the pre IB program in HS and she is a top student out of the top. It's hard for her to find the same kind since she is not a nerdy type and she gets attracted to the playfulness in the less capable people. DD14 is incredibly playful.

    She said she hates everyone and chooses to stay home study 24/7 to avoid getting hurt. School and volley ball are her only buddies. Should I be concerned? Is this normal and it's just a pharse? Are gifted people destined to live their lives like this until they find their own kind one day? Please share your opinions. Thanks a lot.

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    Sounds like your daughter is looking for the right things in a friend, and the real problem is the rarity of those desirable traits in others. I also think that by looking for the right social traits and not getting hung up on intellectual ability, your DD is making a smart decision.

    The only thing I'd be concerned with is if she's being a little too rigid in how she identifies the lack of morals, integrity, fairness, and diligence in others. Perfectionism run amok?

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    My DD15 is very shy and also is too rigid. She has school friends, but does not socialize outside of school. It breaks my heart how much she is alone. She does not seem to mind most of the time, but she has let it slip a few times how lonely she is. (She is an only child.)

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    Originally Posted by Dude
    The only thing I'd be concerned with is if she's being a little too rigid in how she identifies the lack of morals, integrity, fairness, and diligence in others. Perfectionism run amok?

    I was pretty perfectionistic as a kid on these things, but I was still able to maintain a group of friends.

    My rigidity got me into trouble on occasion, but it wasn't a deal-breaker.

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    Oh boy! Just wanted to let you know that I can relate!!! DS14 is a perfectionist, is serious... has such high standards for everyone around him. I pity his future wife Lol ... He's talented not only in academics, but also in music and sports. To find that unique combo is impossible where we live. Fortunately, he just shrugs it off and says that he can't wait to get to college where he'll hopefully find others more like him smile

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    I really can't identify with this at all (my DD is the polar opposite of this, emotionally speaking-- though she is also very playful, witty, and high-achieving)-- but I do have some insights into this. Sorry-- some of this is going to sound quite harsh. Please forgive me, but my own young teen (also PG) is recovering from extended abuse delivered by a peer with a probable narcissistic personality disorder. In other words, my kid is one of those kids that your child evidently "hates," and feels is "unworthy" of her friendship.

    Yes, other HG+ people are rare but... um... it does seem a bit suspicious that your child (and you, apparently?) feel that there is nobody -- and apparently, nobody even "close"? to measuring up within her demanding IB program? Unless this is a fairly small program and she's never been grade accelerated, that's statistically unlikely even for a PG child. Now, that doesn't guarantee compatibility-- I get that, and this is my DD's reality as well. She has few similar-ability peers who share interests. Like your DD, she isn't a terribly "geeky" or "awkward" girl. She's very popular, but she has few friends who truly "get" her, and she's also three years younger than any of those peers. I can see how she really would be light years beyond any peers if she were an 8th grader right now (unaccelerated). So on the academic side, it may be true that she's "the top of the top" but that seems to only be tangential to SOME of the things you're describing.

    Being that way doesn't automatically translate into feeling superior. Your daughter sounds arrogant, and maybe a little mean-spirited with peers. Unvarnished truth. Has she NEVER been around other PG children? It'd be interesting to see how that played out. I'd probably make an effort to get her that exposure-- if it's truly that she's lonely, she'll find a better peer group, and if it's not, at least it will be far more evident to you that something is amiss.

    How does she feels about her teachers? Her coaches?

    Honestly, that outwardly-directed perfectionism CAN be a serious red flag. The fact that your child can't maintain any close friendships? Yeah-- that's not a good sign, either, because it indicates very all-or-nothing thinking and possibly a lack of empathy for others. I also find it telling that you describe her as "funny" and verbally "witty" and then go on to hint that peers also "pick up on" her judgments about them. My guess, having seen this dynamic in action? She may actually intend for them to feel cut to ribbons by her sarcasm, and it's possible that she is using her voice as a weapon. Not everyone who is "witty" makes other people feel disliked or devalued.

    It sounds as though your DD believes that she is better than everyone else she knows.

    Is this actually TRUE? Is she that "perfect?" Have you asked teachers/counselors?

    In what ways is it true? I find it very difficult to believe that your child knows NO people who exceed herself in integrity, honesty, loyalty, altruism, athletic ability, musical talent, etc. Or is it that if it's NOT an area of excellence for her personally, then it is worthless? Is it that anyone who doesn't AGREE with her must by extension be "stupid" or corrupt? It's concerning that she is so judgmental, frankly.

    She is social, but... is isolating herself because nobody else measures up?? And she "hates them?"

    WOW.

    Sorry-- I know that as parents we're often quite reluctant to consider flaws in our own kids. But you did ask.

    If I were you, and assuming that this is something that you've seen for quite a long time, I'd be involving a counselor.

    People like this can be setting themselves up for a lifetime of personal unhappiness-- and just as importantly, they make everyone AROUND them miserable, too-- in extreme cases, the reason why they "have no friends" isn't actually that they "choose" to have no friends, but that they can't sustain friendships with others because they don't really have the empathetic skills required to BE friends. Again, at the extreme end... but narcissistic people destroy other people. Some narcissism is normal for adolescence. But parents are often not in a good position to see when pride and self-confidence cross the line.


    As noted at the top-- this is simply what I'm picking up from your post. Others have already covered the "loneliness" aspects of things. Please understand that I do get that aspect of this, having a DD who is in a similar situation. It's just that my DD's response to it has been radically different than what you're describing. What do school counselor/teachers think about your daughter's self-imposed isolation? What do they say to you about her interpersonal skills?


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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    I really can't identify with this at all (my DD is the polar opposite of this, emotionally speaking-- though she is also very playful, witty, and high-achieving)-- but I do have some insights into this. Sorry-- some of this is going to sound quite harsh. Please forgive me, but my own young teen (also PG) is recovering from extended abuse delivered by a peer with a probable narcissistic personality disorder. In other words, my kid is one of those kids that your child evidently "hates," and feels is "unworthy" of her friendship.

    Yes, other HG+ people are rare but... um... it does seem a bit suspicious that your child (and you, apparently?) feel that there is nobody -- and apparently, nobody even "close"? to measuring up within her demanding IB program? Unless this is a fairly small program and she's never been grade accelerated, that's statistically unlikely even for a PG child. Now, that doesn't guarantee compatibility-- I get that, and this is my DD's reality as well. She has few similar-ability peers who share interests. Like your DD, she isn't a terribly "geeky" or "awkward" girl. She's very popular, but she has few friends who truly "get" her, and she's also three years younger than any of those peers. I can see how she really would be light years beyond any peers if she were an 8th grader right now (unaccelerated). So on the academic side, it may be true that she's "the top of the top" but that seems to only be tangential to SOME of the things you're describing.

    Being that way doesn't automatically translate into feeling superior. Your daughter sounds arrogant, and maybe a little mean-spirited with peers. Unvarnished truth. Has she NEVER been around other PG children? It'd be interesting to see how that played out. I'd probably make an effort to get her that exposure-- if it's truly that she's lonely, she'll find a better peer group, and if it's not, at least it will be far more evident to you that something is amiss.

    How does she feels about her teachers? Her coaches?

    Honestly, that outwardly-directed perfectionism CAN be a serious red flag. The fact that your child can't maintain any close friendships? Yeah-- that's not a good sign, either, because it indicates very all-or-nothing thinking and possibly a lack of empathy for others. I also find it telling that you describe her as "funny" and verbally "witty" and then go on to hint that peers also "pick up on" her judgments about them. My guess, having seen this dynamic in action? She may actually intend for them to feel cut to ribbons by her sarcasm, and it's possible that she is using her voice as a weapon. Not everyone who is "witty" makes other people feel disliked or devalued.

    It sounds as though your DD believes that she is better than everyone else she knows.

    Is this actually TRUE? Is she that "perfect?" Have you asked teachers/counselors?

    In what ways is it true? I find it very difficult to believe that your child knows NO people who exceed herself in integrity, honesty, loyalty, altruism, athletic ability, musical talent, etc. Or is it that if it's NOT an area of excellence for her personally, then it is worthless? Is it that anyone who doesn't AGREE with her must by extension be "stupid" or corrupt? It's concerning that she is so judgmental, frankly.

    She is social, but... is isolating herself because nobody else measures up?? And she "hates them?"

    WOW.

    Sorry-- I know that as parents we're often quite reluctant to consider flaws in our own kids. But you did ask.

    If I were you, and assuming that this is something that you've seen for quite a long time, I'd be involving a counselor.

    People like this can be setting themselves up for a lifetime of personal unhappiness-- and just as importantly, they make everyone AROUND them miserable, too-- in extreme cases, the reason why they "have no friends" isn't actually that they "choose" to have no friends, but that they can't sustain friendships with others because they don't really have the empathetic skills required to BE friends. Again, at the extreme end... but narcissistic people destroy other people. Some narcissism is normal for adolescence. But parents are often not in a good position to see when pride and self-confidence cross the line.


    As noted at the top-- this is simply what I'm picking up from your post. Others have already covered the "loneliness" aspects of things. Please understand that I do get that aspect of this, having a DD who is in a similar situation. It's just that my DD's response to it has been radically different than what you're describing. What do school counselor/teachers think about your daughter's self-imposed isolation? What do they say to you about her interpersonal skills?

    There are many well considered points in your post, but I came to a different hypothesis based on two points:

    1. "She said she hates everyone and chooses to stay home (sic: to) study 24/7 to avoid getting hurt."
    2. "It's hard for her to find the same kind since she is not a nerdy type and she gets attracted to the playfulness in the less capable people."

    It sounds like loneliness to me, maybe with a touch of misanthropy. The OP's DD is portrayed as seeking out friendships across social borders, but keeps coming up short becuause the "nerds" are too introverted/serious and the "jocks" can't relate to her intellectual interests. I know you acknowledged that this offers a partial explanation.

    I think it's easy to blur the line between being discerning vs. judgmental and, with limited case facts, it's hard to say which is at play. I don't disagree with your assessment of the dangers of judgmentalism, but I do think we need more information before drawing a definitive conclusion. Personally, I'd like to better understand the word "hates"-- is it reactive or not?

    I appreciate your perspective and the nuance it brings to the discussion.


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    Thank you very much for all your input. I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions. They are all I need to re-evaluate my parenting and my DD's behavior. I don't take comments personally but they do post a lot of insight when you think about your own situation. No one knows exactly what's going on in one's situation but yourself. It depends how to take it and implement them wisely.

    It's my fault that I didn't share the whole story before I seek comments and help. I shall tell you more before anything else.

    My DD14 is an only child and I saw her giftedness early when she's around 1.5 of age but I only confirmed her giftedness after some out-ot-level testing result.

    DD14 was diagnosed with anxeity and depression when 3 and has been taking med since.

    At 5, she was placed in a regular public school in kindergarten. Her teacher adored her personality and recognised her ability. She enjoyed that year so much and she was a happy camper. But things got really bad when her first grade teacher didn't enjoy having a gifted child in her class and tried to suppress her in front of everyone. Her self-esteem went down so low that she put a guy name next to her own name on every single piece of hw to disguise her own identity. She refused to wear girls outfit and I had to buy clothes out of the boy sections for years. Her anxeity level shot up and we had to increase her med.

    My mother's instinct told me that I had to pull her out and we put her in a private school after spending 2 months in the public school. She might appeared as a cheerful girl from outside but I know deep down she was a little mouse that so scared of getting in trouble with the authorities. She's very anxious at most. But her own cheerful personality and kindness had drawn a lot of friendship from everywhere. I was told by most teachers that she's kind, respectful and humble. Her teachers adored her.

    Nonetheless, at this age it didn't allow her to identify the indiffernece she was facing but the topics that she talked about sometimes make her the wirediest one in school. She would tell friends about how an airline woudl save money from removing an olive of every passenger in first class but no one cared about it. But she kept being funny and weird. People didn't mind when they were at that age as long as you are willing to put your hand in the dirt.

    Things went down when a girl of one year older came to our school in second grade. Again, my DD14's personality got her attention and that girl wanted to be friends with her. My DD14 had more friends than anyone then. It was fine for a year or two but some jealousy started to take place in this girl's mind. She starting to manipulate people around them and made them turn against my DD. A year old than most gave her the advantage and power when kids were around 8-10. They're starting to realise the indifference in my daughter. Friends were starting to turn against my DD and my DD's conscience was kicking in as well. My DD felt unfairness and her judgement of the wrongfulness of course didn't help her to remain calm and solve her problems. She started to feel more anxious each time before a new school year all because of the uneasy situation brought by this girl. Her doctor had to increse her dosage every summer to help her ease the anxeity attack. My heart broke again.

    We finally moved her to a public school in seventh grade and she learned so much from the GATE program like good study habit, more down-to-earth kids. She spent most of time adjusting to the new school system and new friends. So, life didn't seem too bad without a lot of friends. To add more info, this public school is located in a lower income district and 80% of the kids are under priviledged. The other 20% are mostly in GATE. These two years went by fast and people weren't mean to her since she's a newbie and everyone found her interesting. Again, she's funny and playful and we have a very different background from most. (My husband is a doctor but we live a comfotable but humble life but kids still see the difference)

    HS is the time when I see the problem getting bigger. (Most kids in this HS were from the previous MS) They don't have curiosity about my daughter anymore. They identified her and her place as who she is, is set.

    Just to add a note. My DD14 is a very kind young lady and would put her heart out to people. That's why she gets hurt easily and she closes herself up now. I never agree that my DD is easy going and I'm sure pretty much most gifted children have their own traits that other don't understand but I'm sure she is a sweet person. Most of her coaches and teachers always comment how sweet and humble she is and were surprised she is not a spoiled child from where she's coming from.

    Our family have a belief of treating people right and kind but never let them take advantage of our kindness. I'm trying to help my DD to understand that she should stand tall when other people try to bring you down but never be mean to them. She got it and did it but she's lonely now.

    That's my story. I hope it helps if anyone wants to know more and contribute your opinions. Anything will work, nice, harsh as long as I learn some from it. Again thanks again all the GT parents. Love you all cuz we have the best kids in the world and we care.

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    True, what aquinas notes-- "hates" can indicate all manner of poor fit issues with kids. It could be that she is genuinely feeling bullied; withdrawal is a definite indicator, particularly if it's recent. I wonder also what "hurt" means in this context-- both subjectively and objectively. Is it a lack of affirmation of her beliefs/wishes? Or is it deliberately hurtful or nasty behavior from peers? There is a world of difference between those things, and it's why I wonder about the perspective of other adults who know this young lady in her daily life. ETA: It sounds as though you are doing that-- which is good. smile I'd definitely keep asking for inputs from those people, and let them KNOW that your DD is having these problems. See what they can tell you after observing a while.

    I seldom characterize my DD's peers as "jealous" of her accomplishments (though when faced with black-and-white evidence, perhaps shocked/intimidated). The few who are envious/jealous tend to be so highly competitive and insecure that they are absolutely toxic and destructive (often aided by parents). That's not the majority, however. I'd remove my DD from a situation in which that was the norm. Sometimes we've had trouble with other parents of bright-not-gifted/MG kids, because they become so defensive when their special-snowflake construct is threatened by my DD's unassuming but undeniable HG+-ness. It's a parent problem, though; occasionally the parents even come after my DD directly. Obviously I draw the line at that and gently remind other parents that passive aggressively interacting with my DD that way is... unseemly and inappropriate in the extreme. I fully concede that in a highly competitive environment/district, it's possible for an HG+ child to be victimized by a group of social jackals. "Hatred" might well be an appropriate response to that over time. It depends on whether the feeling of persecution is based on actual actions/statements of others or not.

    So why does DD not have this envy/jealousy problem much with peers? I have a couple of hypotheses. DD compartmentalizes; her school friends have no idea that she also excels in areas X, Y, and Z, and her friends from those other activities have no real reason to know just what an academic superstar she is. With agemates, she's "13" and with academic peers she's "11th grade." She doesn't share every accomplishment. Therefore, she isn't seen as "threatening" socially, but it takes nothing away from her, either-- she just shows the facets of herself which are situationally relevant at the time. Most of the time, wide-open competition is going to make others feel bad/defensive by comparison-- DD is far too good at far too many unrelated domains. Now, that comes with its own problems, since she compares her performance to "100%" rather than to peers... but that is a different kettle of fish.

    DD also looks for ways that her friends are highly competent or admirable, and she's complimentary about their interests and abilities. They learn that they can trust her not to lord anything over them, or criticize them when they are feeling insecure. In other words, interpersonally, she finds ways to make others feel that they are her equal/superior in terms of human/social value, even when she COULD make them feel like dirt instead. She is gracious and keenly interested in what others are doing. This is why people like to be around her once they know her well; because she makes others feel GOOD about themselves.

    It sounds like teachers and adults like the OP's DD very well, and that maybe it's mostly a peer problem.

    My own DD has the same high levels of integrity, honesty, altruism, and morality as the most extreme of her peers, but she isn't judgmental about it. She won't go along just to get along, but she also doesn't feel any need to "correct" others aside from a few areas (all related to in-progress hate-speech or discrimination). She can agree to disagree about pretty much anything as long as it isn't actively injuring another person. She has seen peers who interpret "please stop badgering me-- I don't think that you're right, and I'm never going to" as a personal attack of some kind, however. That is obviously rigidity and this is where I wonder about the term "hurt" as the OP has used it.

    None of my DD's friends has been a cognitive equal-- and the only one who was close actually had a pathological need to believe that his LOG was far higher than hers (which seems have been a sham intended to cover insecurities, actually). She's probably only known 1-2 other peers who were at her LOG, and unfortunately (for both kids), they had little in common interest-wise. Nevertheless, she has never once felt that another human being was unworthy of her or her time; she just enjoys others for what they DO have to offer rather than discarding them for what they lack.

    There are things about being human which transcend intellect.

    I can't say that my DD doesn't have friendship problems. She is also searching for a soul-mate best friend, and has yet to find anything like one. But she's not throwing away the friends that she makes because they don't match that ideal, either. ETA: If, as the OP has reason to believe, this set of problems is intrinsically related to a particular relationally aggressive student, then I'd address that with the school. (I'm assuming that this other peer is back in her DD's life again and that is where the problems are coming from-- my apologies if I've misunderstood.)


    I'm also wondering what would happen if the OP approached the school at all about finding a more suitable placement for her DD. It sounds at least possible that her placement is not sufficiently challenging-- though that isn't clear either, since she apparently DOES work for her academic successes. Hard to know from just a little snapshot, but I thought that I would throw that idea out there. If she were with OLDER peers, and no longer "the top of the top" maybe she wouldn't be such a target socially? Or does she have a need to always be number one?


    {Thanks so much for understanding that I'm merely offering ideas-- not judging in ANY way-- every situation is far more complex than we can explain easily on a forum}

    Last edited by HowlerKarma; 01/25/13 12:47 PM.

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    As another thought, from my own recollection, that time in my life was hard for me. I was not really mature enough yet to realize you have friends for different reasons. I wanted a best friend- a soulmate, so that I felt like I could be understood all the time. However, in time, I have learned this and am a much happier person because of it.

    I'm not saying not to worry about this, but maybe help her work through it. Btw, I was also disillusioned when I went to college and thought everyone would be like me, only to find that it was pretty similar to high school.

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