Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Gifted/ ADHD- programming

Interesting, kcab, as the testing psych. did say that often the ADHD/ADD symptoms can disappear on their own around age 11. I'll have to take a look at the articles later.

Two of my kids have been diagnosed with attention issues. Through learning about them, I have come to the realization that I have probably suffered from undiagnosed ADD all my life. At some point, I would like to try medication for myself. There are some non-medical interventions that can offset the problems, but they are not completely effective. Exercise helps, as well as very overt visual reminders. I have trouble with organizational challenges, forgetting things (like this week I forgot to take son to his play rehearsal) and following through. I am great at creative thinking and eager to join and get things rolling with new groups, but I have trouble sustaining that interest, no matter how much I want to. Things slip out of my head. I left my poor mother's helper sitting on the porch for an hour one day because I forgot she was coming! I had a palm pilot to assist me with keeping a calendar and to-do list, but I kept forgetting to replace the batteries and losign all my data.

People with ADD absolutely have the ability to focus. It just isn't something we can easily control. I used to be so embarrassed that my kids could not sit still or be quiet in church. They stayed in the baby room long after they should have been out of it, because they were so impulsive and wiggly.

OK, that makes sense. I would swear that my husband should have been diagnosed with ADD as a child, and the symptoms continue. Drawers, doors left hanging open; tool boxes & tools left on top of places & lost; etc. One thing that drives me crazy, and fits this description, "selective attention, because they select out what is important to them, and often hyperfocus on that to the exclusion of other things" -- he picks up the mail, goes through it until something catches his eye, and forgets to check the rest of the mail.

But I see what you are saying Eema. I hadn't read what Sears sais about ADD/ADHD. Very interesting to ponder.

The way that ADHD was best described to me was that most people process information and in that split second between thought and action most of us complete 4 processes which a person with ADHD is not able to do either in part or in whole. There is a split nano second between thought start to action. It is during this time when those with ADHD are different.

1. Minds movie theatre: a quick movie in our mind where we see it played out before actually doing it. We run scenarios in our head in a split second with the focus of how it will play out. The person with ADHD processes too quickly and misses that movie to varied degrees 2. Minds eye.. same concept, only a photograph of how the action will look 3. mind's ear/ voice ... again same concept only running the verbal scenario in our mind before saying it. How will the other person hear it? 4. Can't think of the last one, but you get the idea. It might be feeling.. how will the other person feel when i do this action? I have thought that you could expound on that analogy to include other parts of the thought process.

What an ADHD child needs to learn how to do and what medication can temporarily help them with is slowing down that process, until a slower process is learned. The medication can help to temporily slow it down until either there is maturity/ learned behavior, etc. I envision that a gifted child has a sped up process as well, but the processes are whole, ,meaning the scenarios are run through in entirety.. just faster and maybe more of them, hence an imaginative flair to the process.

This analogy really helped me in understanding my son and was a big ah ahh moment with coming to accept his ADHD. The person who told me this is my son's psychiatrist (who gives him meds- no therapy ). He also explained that there really is not a behavior component to ADHD at this level, although the ADHD can be compounded by behavioral issues/ other medical conditions, ie OCD. What needs to happen is that, in order to adapt, the child needs to change the incomplete process to a whole one. Being congniscent of this is a big first step. Behavior needs to change to an optimum processing point.
Interesting on the brain maturation.. and is in line with this analogy. I agree that there is a blurring. Because of that, it is doubly difficult to accurately diagnose the ADHD.

Coming to the realization that my son has ADHD has brought me to think about my own maturation. I remember saying things too quickly, interupting, being distracted,annoying, etc but over time played the game and learned a way to adapt. More thought provocation.. and maybe now I have an explanation to my mom's not always completing sentences and jumping from one subject to the next, all interesting but difficult to follow for many. She would be engaged in conversation and unless you knew her you would say.. what did she say? only at times like when she was excited about a subject. I remember noticing this about her and deciding I did not want to do that as I wanted to fit in.. so I worked at it when the words came out too fast and furious. There is definitely a fine line between creative and maybe not fitting in.

I can also remember running the different scenarios in my head and analyzing what I did wrong in scenario A... changing it up, but still not quite right to scenario B..etc ... eventually it became natural. I am not gifted, but fully capable and rather analytical. I remember childhood IQ testing around 130 .. so that may be the difference.. I am able to fit in easier than those who are in the 150 or 160 range. My brother who is in the 150-160 range never fit in socially growing up and he does not have ADHD.. others would say he was odd. He fits in fine as a research engineer and is great with his kids but still awkward in new social situations. It is quite intriguing to think about the similarities and differences between gifted and ADHD thought... combine the 2 and there you have it... challenge in the making

My son is so challenging as 1. he is highly gifted 2. he is a boy (girls and boys process differently any way you look at it) 3. personality plays a role in it. Have you ever read the book "Personality Plus" by Florence Lithour (?sp)? She also wrote a book "Personality Plus for Parents" or similar title. Helps with understanding your kids, others. Four basic personalities and we are a combination of them. There are other books describing the personality combinations, maybe different names. My son is a Choleric- Sanguine. It seems with me the choleric comes out. He will argue any sentence, any subject, anything... and he will always be right.. Yes, add the gifted factor... argues his way up the knowledge ladder.. .plus he down right knows more than me already...or make that he did 5 yrs ago.
I think those with ADHD can focus, but I think they have to think about it .. when interested in something and intently into it, I think the processes slow down allowing that focus. I love all the different viewpoints and find myself gravitating to this forum at the end of the day.. way to unwind.. always had difficulty shutting down the brain at night... ADHD? or biological clock set on late night... or doesn't everyone need only 4-5hrs of sleep? My brother needs 8 or 9... All of this is thought provokding... umm

You know, I've heard this also, but I know several real little boys in real life who are diagnosed with ADHD and really can't focus on anything besides video games or TV - one not even that, without their medication. I are sorely tempted to guess that the hyperfocus observation is rooted in seeing gifted kids who have been misdiagnosed as ADHD acting like Gifted Kids when interested, and like ADHD kids at school. I'm not a doctor, but it does fit the data.

some (many? several?) Gifted kids certianly have OverExcitabilites that can be motor or otherwise that make a classroom a living xxxx. Readiness level placement can help, but for HG/PG kids, readiness level placement may not really be possible in a school that isn't flexible, because all the abilities don't come in at the same time - so a 8 year old may be 'ready' for discussions in a high school english class, but no way ready emotionally for the topics of the books of the written output. Good news is that it doesn't have to be a perfect fit for the experience to be worthwhile. Once just may have to give up the idea of having a perfectly well behaved and fitting in kid. BTW - hat's off to all of you with lovely children who are well behaved at school. I don't want to tar them with my son's brush. I do want to be sure they aren't missing out on 'learning how to learn' because they are so socially able, but that's a different post. And I do believe in the self-enriching child who really can make a silk purse and learn how to challenge themselves in any environment, I just don't happen to live with one of those!

Smiles,
Grinity

((skeptical look))
I agree with the second statement, but 130 is gifted, dear. I'm assuming of course that if you were told that you were 125, 126 or 127 - you would be saying 'around 125,' yes?

But I'm glad you are coming around to wind down. Lovely isn't it?

Smiles,
Grinity

Hi Grinity,

I am quite sure that I would have agreed with you on this a few years ago. But since DH (who is PG, has a PhD from a highly competitive grad school) was diagnosed with ADD a few years ago, I will tell you that what Questions says is completely true. The kids you describe are probably the most likely to get diagnosed with ADHD, but hyperfocus is part of the diagnosis for many kids who have ADD (not ADHD.)

DH's hyperfocus is amazing and allowed him to excel in his field and because of this we never thought he could have ADD. But the problem is that he has no middle gears; he is either not focused or completely focused. And for most daily household tasks (and especially when you are raising a child) middle gears are really appropriate. You cook dinner and keep an ear out for what your kid is doing and answer a question about what time practice is tomorrow all at the same time. DH could not do this level of multitasking without becoming overwhelmed. The ADD meds help him stay in this middle place. He tells me that with the meds, he feels "like himself."

I have known other HG+ folks who were the same way and the ADD meds saved their marriages. I'm not suggesting that we medicate everyone, but only that we not write off a diagnosis that could be helpful.

The DSM manual, which psychiatric practitioners use in determining a diagnosis, used to separate ADD and ADHD into 2 diagnoses. Now it is ADHD with subsets as the inattentive component is present in both. My son would have ADD in the "old way" of diagnosing as he really does not have the hyper component. I resisted the thought that it could be ADD for some time because I knew he was gifted- although was never tested and just chalked it up to that. The Montesorri school did minimal testing other than state required. I too agree with (ACS) that there is a place for medication. I hope that one day my son will get to a point of maturation that he will not need medication. Even though I know there is more to it than "maturation"; Versus medication, that he has learned a way to find what you call that middle ground. What mom doesn't want their child to be perfect and normal ... whatever that is. On the other hand, if all it takes is some medication for him to have that "normal" life.. than is it that big of a deal?