Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments private high school for HG+ kid?

We have been homeschooling all along, and I only recently figured out my dd 10 was gifted. (Duh! GAI of 163.) I've always assumed we would homeschool as long as it was working, but figured we would likely be sending her to high school. We live in Philly, so public school is not something we were ever considering. However, there are several highly regarded private schools here, some of the Friends schools, and a few with national reputations. These are expensive, exclusive places with beautiful campuses, etc. (In other words, there is a lot of $$$ there.) I had always thought they would more than meet our educational needs, but now I am not so sure.

My daughter is more verbally gifted than mathy. (Her VCI was 166, and she has long been reading 4-5 years ahead.) I don't think she is the kind of kid who would need multiple year acceleration in math. (She is currently only working one year head in math.) So maybe this would make it more likely that one of these private schools would be a fit? It seems like in lit or English classes, there is always the opportunity to dive in more deeply. She is a "slow but deep" kid.

On the other hand, the culture at these schools seems to be a lot about high pressure/extreme workload. To me, it seems there is a difference between work that is challenging because it is conceptually rigorous, and work that is challenging because it is so voluminous. I don't doubt that there is a certain amount of challenge at these schools for both of these reasons, but I wonder sometimes if it is more #2 than #1. While I think it is good to face a certain amount of #2 challenge in high school (develop time management skills, combat perfectionism)I think too much can be a very bad thing.

I am also curious about the social climate at these kinds of schools for gifted kids. I am pretty sure dd would fit in well. There seem to be plenty of other bright kids there. But am I kidding myself about that? I love that homeschooling has SOMEWHAT shielded us from the peer pressure driven materialism that comes with going to school with an affluent cohort. (No UGGS here!)I know I will lose that when/if she goes to school, but hopefully she will have a strong enough sense of self to make good judgments.

I have a couple of years before this becomes a real issue, but I am still trying to absorb this new gifted label and take in what it might mean for her educational future.

Any experience out there with private high schools? Thanks in advance.

I have a homeschooled 9th grader. We looked at private high schools. The ones similar to the schools you've described had lots of homework. I know a number of parents whose kids go to a highly-rated prep school around here, and they told me that "You live, eat and breathe that school for four years. There is nothing else." The school has a whole lot to offer, but my son did that cross-thing with his fingers (as in, "Begone, Evil Spirit!") when we suggested it. He was right. Who needs four or more hours of homework 7 days a week?

We had previously sent him to a very small private middle/high school that had been designed with gifted kids in mind. It was fantastic. No one questioned the idea that an eight-year-old sixth grader might be ready for algebra. I'm sorry to say that the school was acquired and moved well outside of our commuting range. However, are there any small boutique schools in your area you could look at?

DS has been homeschooling since August. So far, he's very happy and is learning a lot. He took the CTY entrance test and can take all of their courses. Some, like Forensics and their English courses, are superb and well worth the fees. He did an EPGY English class that was also excellent. This semester, in addition to CTY, we've branched out and are starting to use the University of Missouri Online High School. An advantage of "Mizzou" is that they offer tons of courses. DS is trying physics and the history of Ancient Egypt.

I have no idea if these courses will work out well. The books seem to be pretty good. They're also what I call "homemade." This means that they're designed and taught by one person who has expertise in the field. In our limited experience, DS and I have observed that his homemade courses were better than the canned ones. By "canned," I mean a course that was designed by a company and then licensed out. DS signed up for AP History via CTY and it was a canned course. It was awful, and he dropped it after two weeks. The instructor spent very little time teaching, and the format was basically a weekly email that said, "Read the chapter and take the online (multiple choice) quiz." Essays were supposed to be written in 40 minutes or less (drill for the AP exam). So, blech to that one. And it was super-expensive.

HTH.

Hi Gabalyn. I live in the Philly suburbs and have a sense of the various schools to which you're referring. Our kids are in a public school system and have been, so far, adequately challenged within the classroom (including some augmenting with GT programs and math enrichment). We have many friends with kids in private schools. For those who don't know this area -- the Philadelphia metro area has a disproportionately high number of private schools, to the extent that 40% of kids that live in one of the top two districts in the entire state go to private schools. It's as much cultural as anything else, and is often not solely based on academics (numerous families who have switched from private to our public have commented that the public academics are more rigorous).

My advice would be to actually visit the schools, if you haven't yet done so, and talk to as many parents as possible. The difference in environment and culture and families at each of these schools varies tremendously, and as everyone here often says, fit with kid/school can be so individual. One neighbor just switched her son (my sense is he's PG, certainly HG+) to Shipley and they've been thrilled, yet other friends moved their HG kids out of same school because it wasn't a good fit.

If you're in the city, have you considered Masterman? If so and you don't want to consider it, would you mind sharing why? My sense is that Masterman is competitive academically with most, if not all, of the privates.

Lucy

My ds isn't in high school yet, but we did opt to put him in private school for middle school. The thing is - all schools are *so* very individual it's impossible to draw conclusions based on the experience of other people in other locations - you have to somehow get in and know the school. In our case, we had a few recommendations to go on (one from a person who knew and understood our ds well). You're thinking about all the same things we thought about, so my advice to you is to try to find out what you can about the schools you're considering from parents or private professionals you know and who's opinions you trust. Also know that you might hear some bias against private schools too.

For our ds, it's worked out great - much better than I'd ever have anticipated. He isn't at a school that is specifically for gifted students, but student's academic records and testing scores are considered during the admissions process. Many of the students attending the school are in fact relatively high IQ kids so he had peers he fit in with right away. He still stands out as being "the smart kid" in class but his teachers challenge him to "go deeper" and think deeper. The school doesn't have a huge homework load and when we've gone through a period where homework was causing stress (due to the amount of time required) the teachers stepped in right away and pulled back on the amount they required. It's a small school and my ds has benefited from being in with a small number of students during middle school - it's just more suited to his personality. I appreciate that the teachers at his school appreciate and listen to parent input - that wasn't our experience at the public school he previously attended.

We will most likely send ds to a private school for high school too... although we are going to let him be a part of the decision. The issue I have heard of with our public highly gifted program in high school is one you mentioned - the teachers equate high IQ with high ability to handle astonishingly high amounts of homework, and not necessarily deeper-thinking homework. We're hoping to find a situation where ds will be able to combine school classes with online or local college courses.

polarbear

ps - fwiw, I would try to not let the "gifted" label intimidate you when you look forward or necessarily change your plans for her - your dd is still the same dd you've been working with, and you know her well!

You should definitely start going to open houses and if available a "day in action" type event for parents where the kids are actually there. Notice the feel of the school, how they're dressed, how the lockers are decorated or not, the expressions on the kids' faces...everything. In a couple of years or this year or next your child could maybe even do a shadow day.

This year I took my 4th grade DD from public, 6 hrs, not too much homework, easy walk...but not learning once ounce of anything day after day no gifted accommodations or differentiation (except higher reading group in contained class but they don't go over 5th grade reading level and she is 12th).

She now goes to $$ private, 20 min. drive, 7 hours, usually tons of homework and middle-school style with lots of different teachers, changing classes etc. She's learning tons but yesterday, for example, her book bag weighed so much I could hardly lift it, never mind her. Right now she's enjoying it because it's the first time in her life she's ever learned anything at school. She is very slow with homework and really can't do anything else during the week except one day her music. The writing load is above her head/experience/ability right now but I'm trying to figure it out, and some of the kids/parents are rich-snotty or just to sheltered it's like they're under glass. Some are fine - she's just so happy to be learning and she takes a foreign language every day she's so excited. Some of the classes could be more accelerated for her (reading, math, science) but it's an all-around best fit for right now.

Some of the teachers "get" her and enjoy her, some obviously don't really know what to do when she is racing ahead (math/science) and I can tell don't care for her too much. Socially, our family doesn't fit it and I don't know how I'll ever get to know some of the parents. I am really putting alot of effort into making sure she continues to keep her couple of great friendships outside of school and keeps meeting new kids.

I see the kids at the attached high schools (one for girls, one for boys) at how heavy their backpacks are. I talk to moms whose kids are older (middle/high school) in my network and how much time they spend on homework. I just talked to a family member and her three girlfriends home from 1st semester of college about the workload they had in high school and was it worth it, etc.

I guess my point and personal opinion is that I like the idea of homeschooling for high school. DD is very creative and does get stressed as the week goes by when she hardly has time for her designs and building and puttiering. It's just going to get more and more of a workload. I could see her doing alot of online things and then being in the community, possibly internships etc. Right now I think continuing to have the guaranteed social experience and structure and other things she's learning for the next four years or so.

Anyway exploring options can be fun and you learn alot when you go to open houses (of course they are sales days) the more info you collect the better.

As MurphysMom said, if you are in the city, check out Masterman. My eldest knows several kids there, and it is clearly the best public school in Philadelphia.

I don't know where you are exactly and your situation, but there are - as MurphysMom explained - some very good public schools near Philadelphia as well as a ton of private schools. If moving to Lower Merion, Radnor or T/E is possible, then public school is an option (there are other good districts - try to find the Philadelphia Inquirer yearly article on area schools). Private schools vary in culture and academic rigor. Try to find the Philadelphia magazine article on area private schools that was published a few months ago. While I'm sure you know about some of the private schools, you can check out a chart to see which ones have the highest SAT scores:

http://www.phillymag.com/articles/private-school-guide-2012/

Of course, not every kid in a private school is going to be HG/PG, but there are a lot of bright kids. As for the public schools, there are plenty of bright kids there too - in T/E, 7% of the current senior class is NMSF and it is 8% of the class in Radnor.

For the HG/PG kid the classes might still be easy at any school, but at least they will have intellectual peers in many of the private schools and at the public schools mentioned above.

Just wondering: I read that Philadelphia will be closing 37 schools next year, including high schools. How will this affect the remaining schools (my source of information is here)?

Thanks for all the responses. All good food for thought. We did give some thought to Masterman, but it seems that 5th grade is virtually the only entry point. When dd was in 4th grade (when we would have had to apply), I had trouble imagining her at Masterman. It sounds like a fairly intense, competitive place. I thought it would be a tough transition to go there from our fun, unschooly life. And I don't think any of us felt quite ready to stop homeschooling.

This year, she is taking classes through CTY, Mizzou, and onlineG3, and is involved with a great group of EG/PG homeschoolers, so I can imagine our current situation continuing to work for right now. Unfortunately, there aren't any boutique options as far as I know except for a few very alternative schools that I don't think would be quite right. So for now, I think our choice will be between homeschooling and one of these Friends schools, or a similar school.

Thanks again!

Val- I'm not sure what will happen. The ps situation here is complex and also very sad. I try to follow it, but I am not as knowledgable about it as I should be.

What do you think of Mizzou?