Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional looking for advice on testing procedure

Hello to everyone - was looking for some advice..my 5 year old son (who has sensory disorder)went in earlier in the week to do the Weschler preschool test and did about 1 hour and 25 minutes of testing and then we were to go back today to finish it up...I just got a call from the psychologist who said that she wanted to let us know that he had done enough subtests for her to be able to come up with an accurate IQ score and to be able to share the info about his strengths and weaknesses and that we didn't need to complete the rest of the assessment subtests. Should I be concerned about this? Should we go and complete all of the test to get a really accurate picture or can you get an accurate score/look by only completing so many subtests? My son does have an issue with going to new locations/settings because of his SPD but he really said he liked doing the "brain games". Would love to hear opinions???

Thanks so much Dottie for the info...I AM SO FRUSTRATED - I went in this afternoon and spoke with the psychologist and knew right away that it wouldn't matter if we continued with the other subtests. I am very limited in choices of local psychologists and when I spoke with her about the +/- of finishing she said that she really didn't believe that children should be tested at 5 and that she was pretty adament that she didn't want to "subject" him to any more testing. She said that the other subtests were basically repeats of subtests he had already done but were introduced in a different way so she didn't feel the need for him to continue. She said that I should just let him be a kid and not worry because obviously he is a very gifted child who will do just fine in school. I was floored with some of her comments. I told her the teachers were concerned because he is one of the oldest in his Montessori preschool and that he has nothing in common with any of the other children in his class...he has tried to share some of his excitement about his love of weather and science but they all look at him like he is really strange so he keeps to himself....when he does get the chance to be around 7, 8, 9 year olds he fits with them like a comfy pair of socks and really gets a chance to shine. She said that it wasn't a good idea to allow him to spend a lot of time with older children because of his age. She said that most gifted children do just fine in school because they are able to "hold their own" without any special help. WHAT!!!! My little guy is a perfectionist and is not a self-motivator - not a good mix!! She also said it shows how much work you have done with him and all the things you have taught him - I let her know that we are just as shocked as everyone else with the stuff that comes out of his mouth...we never taught him his letters or sounds - he taught himself how to read....I am tired of the connotation that because you have a very smart little boy that we somehow locked him up in his room and force feed him academics - why is it so hard for them to realize that we are just along for the ride!!

So, I just went ahead and had her tell me the results so far and I was really surprised at the difference in IQ scores from his SB and the Weschler. He was like 128 on the SB and 118 on the WPPSI - I didn't get the written report so I don't remember all the exact names of things. She told me the same thing the other psych did with the SB. That he was scoring really really high - 99% on some levels such as general knowledge but then scored really low on his performance time and scored some low subtests in the block design/and things that required fine motor coordination such as writing/using the pencil to do marking. She said it was quite obvious that he was a perfectionist because she said she could tell that he wanted to get everything done exactly like he wanted and perfect and that he would respond with "I don't know" even though she could tell that he probably knew the answer he was just bothered that he might not get it correct. She said that in just talking with him she could tell that he was "very gifted" but she said she could also see how his SPD was really affecting his score. When I asked her what in the world do I do when I have all of his Montessori teachers and his school OT/Speech teacher telling me he is several grade levels ahead but we can't seem to get an IQ score to show that because his SPD is pulling his scores down....she had no answers and said that we really should stop worrying about because "obviously he would do just fine in school".
What in the world can I do as a parent to get my child the things he needs?? Everyone agrees that he is a 2e child but he can't get a score high enough (even though he only missed the 130 mark by a handful of points on the SB) so he would be able to get some kind of enrichment in the gifted program. It's not fair that because he is SPD, he gets overwhelmed with sounds/noises/smells/unknown people in a testing setting he is unfamiliar with so how in the world can he focus on an assessment if he is worried about whether or not the air conditioner is going to kick on when he doesn't expect it. everyone keeps telling me that he is amazing in class and that he would not have any issues keeping up with an advanced class because his only weaknesses are fine motor skills with handwriting and he can type..once he gets used to an environment and everyone helps him follow through with his sensory diet he is 100%. I have no idea what to do next???? Any one else out there in the same boat with a young one who is 2e and trying to get him services?? Thanks for letting me vent

Belle, this is truly a frustrating situation. I know kids with SPD that do score off the charts in terms of IQ, however, I don't know your son or the severity of his SPD.
Five is a hard age sometimes to get accurate results. Perhaps you can have him test again in a year or so. Lots of extremely bright kids "underscore" at that age for a variety of reasons.
I would try to find a tester who specialized in gifted kids and has a good reputation. I would even travel if it's possible for you. It just might be worth it.
Hopefully his therapy will continue to help him with his SPD so that at some point in the near future, he will be able to better tolerate the testing situation.
Good luck.

That's really frustrating. Try different test when he turns 6, you may also try an achievement test, that's usually a language school can understand.

I believe the psychologist can substitute one subtest and perhaps she could have used something which doesn't require fine motor skills. It was an IQ test, not OT test after all. She could have also pushed him a little bit to give her answers when she thought he knew them. I think that's the most frustrating part, the question he could have answered but didn't.

Her opinions about school, friends and such are completely off. She should at the very least understand that there are situation when testing 5 year old is a good idea.

How frustrating! I'm so sorry for this situation.

Is she willing to include all of that information in her report about him being a perfectionist and the ways that affected his scoring and about how she believes his sensory disorder affected him as well? I would ask her about that. Maybe that could help with the school or with getting services.

Are there services at the montessori school that he doesn't have access to now, or are you concerned about next year? I may have missed why he was being tested right now; I apologize. That may make a difference as to how you proceed at this point.

Belle,

It is very frustrating. I don't have any words of wisdom for you. My son's school says he is "barely gifted" with a IQ on the WISC of 131. But on the achievement tests, he is 99.8 and 99.9 %. The psych thinks it may be a fluke and the school doesn't want to look at the achievement part at all. It is very hard to know what to do.

I'm amazed that she tested your DS for so long (2 sessions of 1 1/2 hours)! My guy is 6 1/2 and she did both tests in under 2 1/2 hours.

So, I guess I got sidetracked but I do understand how frustrating it all can be. I can't even imagine how the SPD complicates things for you.

"My little guy is a perfectionist and is not a self-motivator - not a good mix!!" Sounds just like mine.

Two suggestions:
- check Hoagies website (www.Hoagiesgifted.org) on the assessment page. They list psychs who have experience with gifted kids - you might find one in your area

- check the GDC ( www.gifteddevelopment.com) - they offer some consultation services; it is expensive but it might be worth it if you could just send them what you have and then talk to someone on the phone to get some help

I found someone on Hoagies that we are using as a consultant because our psych can't really explain things and won't make any school recommendatons. The consultant is "in our area" but in Texas that is a relative term. We're going to talk on the phone Monday and go from there. Hang in there.

Thanks to everyone for the responses....his SPD is pretty severe...he has about 5 things he eats total, he can not tolerate most noises (he has to sleep with a sound machine on because the air conditioner or our neighbors air conditioner coming out would wake him up 5-6 times a night) he hears things no one else can, any kind of strong smell makes him gag, his sense of touch is underresponsive so he can bang into things and hurt himself and never even know he did it, his spatial awareness is really bad, he can not tolerate fluroescent lights because they hurt his eyes, he can barely tolerate going to the grocery store with me even with a full arsenal of sensory activities...the list goes on....but he has made night and day growth in the past year so we will just keep plugging away.

We mainly looked at doing the testing to give us a heads up to his strengths and weaknesses and his Montessori teacher really wanted an idea as to how high he was - his OT and Speech teacher that come into his Montessori (he has an IEP) have stated that they were concerned that he might be a visual-spatial learner (which has a whole load of issues that go with it unless you know how to reach these children) and they were concerned about keeping him enriched. We visited every single Charter/Magnet/private school in our area and none of them would be the best fit for him and everyone agreed 100% at his last IEP meeting last week that being in a public K class would be awful for him unless we had some kind of paperwork to help back us up for services where perhaps he could go into a TK-1 classroom or into a first grade classroom at least for math time or reading time. So, we decided to stay at his Montessori Preschool and he will be the only K student there next year and he will be big man of the classroom. His teacher has really done and outstanding job with him and he has been there for 3.5 years and he is very comfortable with everyone and the facility. His teacher is already through their entire K curriculum that she is used to doing with kids and he isn't supposed to start K til the fall so she is digging deep to try to pull in lots of the elementary level montessori activities to keep him enriched. If he had the 130 mark he would be eligible to go once a week across the street to the public school for a half day gifted class where he could interact with other kids like himself. The sad thing is that all we need is for one elementary teacher or one school psychologist to come spend the whole day shadowing him and they would be able to see just how amazing of a little boy he is. We are looking at trying to just hire a really good math tutor who is more creative in their teaching instead of just workbook work to try to help build his love of all things math. After next year we will re-examine everything again. It is just so frustrating to hear two psychologists now tell me that they believe my son is very gifted but that his SPD is masking his giftedness...it seems so unfair because what do you do with a child whose brain is really amazing but their sensory system has issues!!! Thanks to everyone for allowing me a place to vent

Off topic:

"Loc: the brink of insanity" - isn't that where we all live, Dottie?

Oh that psych sounded way out of line. My friend had a similar experience that she paid nearly $1000 for. The psych said that parents get too wrapped up in the numbers so refused to give the full results of the WISCIV, WJIII test. Yes, refused to give the numbers. After about 5months, she did finally get the numbers and come to find out, they are wrong but it's doubtful she'll be able to get them to look at it again.

Not to change the subject, but how do you know if the numbers are wrong?

Well our first clue was that the FSIQ was not w/in the confidence interval. The second clue was that based on other scores, one of the sum of scaled scores didn't match the composite. Dottie confirmed all this for us. 8-) Thanks again Dottie!

Yes, GO Dottie! Dottie caught an error on my DD's WISC report as well. It was later confirmed by the psych. and corrected.

You are not mean, sometimes the smirky guy is necessary!

Dottie also confirmed an error on my son's WISCIV report as well. 8-)

Well, gosh, Dottie, why didn't you find a mistake on my son's as well so that we could get rid of that darn "9" on comprehension (emoticon but I don't know how to do them!! Did you notice I did do the box quote, above? Yay!)

Okay, sorry, Belle, for getting this off track. Perhaps if there are more comments about testing errors and the wonders Dottie has worked we should start a new thread?

I didn't know that my son had sensory issues when he was 5, or I guess I did, but didn't have a name for it and didn't know anyone else with these issues. I just thought some of his problems were caused by overexcitabilities. Pediatricians couldn't see the problems and told me that my son would do very well in school because he was reading so well when he had just turned 4 and he was also very articulate. I wonder if they even knew anything about SPD.

I only knew that he had mild hypotonia that caused him to not be able to write very much without his hands getting tired. He hated coloring in the lines and everywhere he went it seemed that people wanted him to color. They do a lot of coloring in our public kindergarten.

He was so excited about starting Kindergarten because he really wanted to learn but he told me a few months later that school was not very educational. I didn't have him tested then. I didn't know testing was available in the school. He wasn't eligible for any kind of therapy in school anyway because he was above grade level in reading and math.

I was told by the principal and a first grade teacher that I asked for advice that I needed to homeschool or put him in private school which I couldn't afford. So having no real choice, I homeschooled.

It wasn't until after we had homeschooled for a year that I had him tested by an educational psychologist at the developmental pediatrician's office. He only gave him the WIAT. He recommended giving him an IQ test but he said he would have to break it up over several sessions because of my son's fatigue issues. We couldn't afford any more testing. He told us what he thought my son's IQ might be based on the achievement test and I thought that was good enough. That estimate fit in with what I thought my son's IQ would be based on things I had read about levels of giftedness and mental age. I thought the main purpose of IQ was really just to predict achievement and ability and I felt like I already had enough proof of both so I didn't see a need to do it. I also read that a lot of kids with fine motor problems were scoring low on the performance section of IQ tests and I was sure that my son, whose motor skills were more like a kid two years younger would score low on this, so I would be wasting my money.

My son's sensory issues caused him to be very fidgety and he would would shake his hands as if he had water on them and he was trying to shake off the water. He later told a doctor that it was like he had excess energy that he had to get rid of. He needed breaks after ever 20 or 30 minutes because he just couldn't focus as well any longer than that. He needed to move. We ended up doing a lot of work orally while he jumped on a trampoline or played with something. I did not make him sit at a desk to do his work. I think he would have really had a problem sitting at a desk all day in first grade, but by allowing him to learn his way which meant a lot of moving around, he tested grade levels ahead of agemates the month he turned seven.

I think it would have been hard to get an accurate IQ score for my son with SPD, especially at age 5, but if I had paid for all the subtests, I would want to have him do all of the subtests.

The weird thing about my son's SPD is that he can be very good at something one day and the next day not that good if motor skills are involved at all. I can really see this in piano. It never made sense to me how he could play so well at his lesson without practicing that much one week and then the next week when he did practice, he didn't play as well. We just alsways joked about it and said it must be "misfiring neurons." Since kind of thing is not predictable I don't know how he could get an accurate test, but if I did have him tested I would want him to complete every subtest.

I forgot to mention that my son's friends at age 5 were gifted kids ages 8 and 9. These kids are still his friends. The only friends who invite him to birthday parties and sleepovers. He can be himself around these kids.

The developmental pediatrician told us that we should make him do things with age mates and we did, but now that he is almost ten I can't see that it helped him in any way. This same developmental pediatrician told us recently that we should make him watch cartoons instead of the news and history and science shows that he loves. We had told her that people keep telling us that he talks like an adult and this was the doctor's advice.

Ugh. What an obvious lack of understanding of GT kids!

Sorry that your Dr. gave you such monumentally stupid advice, Lori! Starve a kid's brain and then maybe they'll seem more "normal," whatever that means? Sure, great plan...

<sarcasm intended!>

Lori - the dev ped said to make him watch cartoons? You've got to be kidding! I regularly find my 7yr old watching TV at 7am and it's documentary on deciphering ancient Mayan hieroglyphs or History documentary on WWII or NOVA show on Big Bang or neutrinos or fossils. He's always been this way and I see no reason to discourage it unless those things are disturbing to the child.

Go Dottie! Good detective work! You could be an assessment auditor.