Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Gifted/ ADHD- programming

Wondermom, as a teacher and tutor to many kids, I have certainly come across kids that fit your son to a T. I understand your frustration and his. I can only say that, when your son gets to college, there are plenty of teachers that have homework as an extra credit, or as a grade-turner, if the person is on a cusp. But this is not the case with all teachers, some count homework as a small percentage, others as a larger percentage.
I tell my students, it's a game, and it's rigged, and its your choice (per class) as to what you want to be your outcome.
Perhaps if your son looked at it this way, he'd be more hopeful. But now, as it stands, the game is stacked firmly against him that he has to turn in assignments. Tell him it's a math challenge; perhaps he only needs 60 percent or so (in that he can toss them off in a few minutes) just to get the points? PLAY THE GAME, I tell my students. And do it quickly, because I know you hate it, but please play. TURN IN ASSIGNMENTS. Do them in five minutes. Do anything!
I can probably guarantee they won't be the worst assignments turned in...
In that way I can get some of my kids through the courses they are bored to death with. BTW my work primarily deals with CC kids, and LD kids, etc.
In regards to Davidson, they have homework there too... so it's wise to just learn to do the work, period. (and if it is truly below one's station, then one must quickly churn it out as fast as possible.)

I guess that the question for your son and mine is this - would he rather do dull homework now for 20 minutes a day, or work a dull job later, 8 hours a day? Test scores alone will not get him into a competitive college - he needs to show the schools that he can
1) figure out what the teachers want
2) give the teachers what they want.

I'm not 'in favor' of our current system, but it is our current system. I would encourage him to start some kind of business on his own this summer so he can see the downside of leaving himself without the option of doing things the 'regular' way.

I would love to see him at Davidson Academy, if you can get there. I share with you the feeling that the regular track is just not meeting my son's needs. BTW - at 12 you can consider leaving him home while you work, and letting him homeschool independently. Community Colleges are an option. Look around for local homeschooling parents who might 'take him in.'

In the meantime, I would watch 'The Karate Kid' with your son. Washing the Master's Car seemed 'mind-squashing' at the time, but turned out to be mind-body training. Of course that's just a movie, but since you have freedom of perspective, it might present a more useful way to frame the problem. I'm never sure which of my son's experiences will turn out to be 'just right' for his future. Will doing mindless homework make it easier for him to change diapers and stay up with colicy offspring in his future? Who knows?

Finally, I would lobby the school really strongly to give him all three honors track classes. My guess it that if he starts and does poorly he can do fewer next year, but if he does well in one or two, that he will not be allowed to join the track midstream. That argument maybe will influence the school. The other idea I have is to imagine the money required for relocation or private school and then hire a tutor to met with him daily and help him get organized.

My son faces similar issues, and somehow, after trying and trying, found a notebook with an outside envelope that he uses exclusivly for homework, and active classroom projects. So there may be some ways to engineer a higher success rate. His school also has electronic gradebook, so I can see if are any outstanding homeworks by checking up on him. We also are starting to have email weekly reports from each teacher that determine how much weekend computer access DS11 will have. I send out an 'How was the week?' email on Friday mornings to each teacher, and they respond.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

I want to say thank you to those that have responded. Really great pointers and it is good to know I am not the only one with these challenges.. seems harder as we get into the teen years. My son is medicated as well with Concerta for the past 2yrs. Didn't pick up on the ADHD until 4th grade as he was always able to compensate cognitively. I am also working on behavioral strategies. I have tried 3 different trapper keepers with various metods and he just recently is buying in to using one and rationalizes that other kids in his class are using them. Some parents do the work for their child and only worry about the grades. I strongly believe that what is most important is that he learn how to study/ complete the work... "play the game" and I have had that discussion with him and have brought his teachers in on that along with a nephew who is in college and tutors freshman on study skills... trying different approaches. He knows that he is capable of an A, so a B is average ( or like a C). I have always checked grade check behind he scenes, but try to let him on his own until I need to step in as want him to develop his own skills- don't want to control him. We started this year that if his grade dips below a B, I will need to look at his work daily until his grades are up to ensure it is done, etc. My rationale is that he dips so quick cause he forgets to do/hand in assigments. I am also emailing them weekly or if I notice an issue and it helps. A measure of doing is the grade. I have uppe the the anty to anything under an A as the year progresses as the contention is he should know the rhythm by now. He seems tied into it some..ADHD does seem to get in the way, as he forgets things. He does admit he is lazy. That is why this quarter keeping on him tighter so as to show him the difference in grades if you just do the work. I have had the real world discussion with him and that we all have to do the mundane... reality.. find a fun way to deal with it. I keep doing my best and I know the ADHD is the extra factor that throws a proverbial wrench in the mix... I just have a hard time with the school placing him in the regular classroom as that places a bigger wrench in the mix... I appreciate the suggestion for lobbying with the school for all 3 advanced as this year he was in the 2 advanced they offer, literacy and math... decided to pick literacy as a drop down to regular mid 1st quarter as he wasn't handing in the work... and his grade was worse in the regular classroom. The principle was saying if he shows that he can do the work next year, he may be able to go in the advanced in 8th grade... that is too long for a bored child.. seems like punishment. I did ask if he could move sooner and I received a vague response...still have to think on that. Maybe I am making too big of a deal about it, but it is such an uphill battle as it is. I think I will beef up the reward system... he was at a bday party sat where the birthday boy got a handheld playstation... great incentive... I will also revisit with his doc for possible increase in medication/ adjustment... growing like a weed in height/ weight.. may help too. My son has been a challenge from birth because of his abilities combined with his immaturity... I will keep plugging along. I am grateful for each response. It sure helps! I do appreciate a teachers perspective... I keep telling my son to just do the work... I just need to find a way to get him to follow- through with that. All of the pointers are great..maybe a study skills class/ tutor? I did try to have the guidance Co meet with him on that, didn't do much. thanks to all .

Wondermom,
It seems that you have been spying on our homelife - Wow this sounds so familiar! All it takes is that last try with the notebook to find the one that works. I also insist on a daily homework check in subject where grades are slipping, and last year I insisted on emailing the homework to the Teachers the night before, and then havinging him hand the printout in. This worked so well that the teachers discouraged me from continuing to insist on this, and there has been some slippage, but mostly not. I figure these are the years to allow 'some' learning the hard way.

Incentives are key, medication check is key - we don't use ADHD meds, but I got into this trouble with Tylenol dosage! Staying on top of vision and hearing checks, and dental check ups just to rule out the obvious distractions.

Last night we had a high point and a low point.
Low: Found out that DS11 didn't actually have the 4 page homework handout for this week although I sure thought he said he did. (My DS will lie when cornered about homework - Ostridge with head in sand.)
High: He had to write a paragraph on how a quote relates to his personal life. He finds this particularly challenging as he never gets any ideas, and he often isn't willing to PTG (play the game) enought to use the teacher's suggestion. He isn't being graded on the idea, just the execution - right? But last night I asked him if he was willing to PTG and he said yes. I asked if I could give him an idea, he said yes, and he typed up the paragraph in under 5 minutes. In times past he would have railed against using an idea that he hadn't come up with himself, be mad at me for 'taking the good idea' and basically it would have been a 2 hour process of tantrum to get the 5 minutes of work.

So - have faith, they do mature, just not quite fast enough.

Smiles,
Grinity

eema, I thought the hallmark of ADHD was the inability to focus on any task?

I was misdiagnosed as ADHD in third grade. And by the leading expert at the time, a Dr. who is still highly respected in the field of medicine and this specialty. I was taken off ritalin when it was clear it was not affecting the behavior.
Admittedly, looking back, my behavior was classic ADHD, which of course, I don't like to admit.
My husband does have ADD and his behavior is markedly different when he takes his medicine. I can tell you within 15 minutes after he wakes up whether or not he takes it. He's extremely argumentative and intense emotion seeking (usually needles me until I start yelling). When he has taken his concerta he just doesn't do it. If the concerta didn't work, I'm not sure we would still be married.
We were concerned DD5 had ADHD, but one of the things I was told is that she concentrates fine when she wants to/is interested. It is a behavioral issue, just not ADHD.
I'm not trying to say you son doesn't have ADHD, good grief, I certainly would't know!!! For all I know my daughter does have ADHD and they are attributing to0 many of the traits to giftedness, and I will keep an eye out just in case, given the family history.
I am biased, though, at having a pediatric nuerologist or psychologist/psychiatrist make that diagnosis, vs. a pediatrician. Just because of my personal experience. Just being honest about where my bias lias.
Whatever is going on, we all know our kids can be a REAL BIG handful, and I can tell you are the kind of mom who is up to the challenge.

P.S. feel free to meet me in the back of my virtual closet with my virtual bottle of vodka any time!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neato

Interesting, as I've been told that ADHD/ADD kids have the ability/desire to hyperfocus on things that interest them but not on what they consider boring, tedious work. In fact, it's been explained to me that it takes so much effort for them to focus that they don't want to make the effort unless they see the value to them (e.g., interesting, or there is other motivation). And when they realize that what they focused on was meaningless to them (e.g., work that's too easy or that they've already mastered) they can get very frustrated and upset.

just out of curiousity, who told you that?

Both the testing psychologist and the OT, although the OT says she doesn't know whether DS's problem with boring work is due to GT or "attentional issues." Psych's report was inconclusive, although DS's pediatrician said not ADD b/c only possible symptoms in school setting, and teacher contradicted herself on the forms she filled out. FYI, I have seen the hyperfocus thing on ADHD websites.

Interesting, kcab, as the testing psych. did say that often the ADHD/ADD symptoms can disappear on their own around age 11. I'll have to take a look at the articles later.

Two of my kids have been diagnosed with attention issues. Through learning about them, I have come to the realization that I have probably suffered from undiagnosed ADD all my life. At some point, I would like to try medication for myself. There are some non-medical interventions that can offset the problems, but they are not completely effective. Exercise helps, as well as very overt visual reminders. I have trouble with organizational challenges, forgetting things (like this week I forgot to take son to his play rehearsal) and following through. I am great at creative thinking and eager to join and get things rolling with new groups, but I have trouble sustaining that interest, no matter how much I want to. Things slip out of my head. I left my poor mother's helper sitting on the porch for an hour one day because I forgot she was coming! I had a palm pilot to assist me with keeping a calendar and to-do list, but I kept forgetting to replace the batteries and losign all my data.

People with ADD absolutely have the ability to focus. It just isn't something we can easily control. I used to be so embarrassed that my kids could not sit still or be quiet in church. They stayed in the baby room long after they should have been out of it, because they were so impulsive and wiggly.

OK, that makes sense. I would swear that my husband should have been diagnosed with ADD as a child, and the symptoms continue. Drawers, doors left hanging open; tool boxes & tools left on top of places & lost; etc. One thing that drives me crazy, and fits this description, "selective attention, because they select out what is important to them, and often hyperfocus on that to the exclusion of other things" -- he picks up the mail, goes through it until something catches his eye, and forgets to check the rest of the mail.

But I see what you are saying Eema. I hadn't read what Sears sais about ADD/ADHD. Very interesting to ponder.

The way that ADHD was best described to me was that most people process information and in that split second between thought and action most of us complete 4 processes which a person with ADHD is not able to do either in part or in whole. There is a split nano second between thought start to action. It is during this time when those with ADHD are different.

1. Minds movie theatre: a quick movie in our mind where we see it played out before actually doing it. We run scenarios in our head in a split second with the focus of how it will play out. The person with ADHD processes too quickly and misses that movie to varied degrees 2. Minds eye.. same concept, only a photograph of how the action will look 3. mind's ear/ voice ... again same concept only running the verbal scenario in our mind before saying it. How will the other person hear it? 4. Can't think of the last one, but you get the idea. It might be feeling.. how will the other person feel when i do this action? I have thought that you could expound on that analogy to include other parts of the thought process.

What an ADHD child needs to learn how to do and what medication can temporarily help them with is slowing down that process, until a slower process is learned. The medication can help to temporily slow it down until either there is maturity/ learned behavior, etc. I envision that a gifted child has a sped up process as well, but the processes are whole, ,meaning the scenarios are run through in entirety.. just faster and maybe more of them, hence an imaginative flair to the process.

This analogy really helped me in understanding my son and was a big ah ahh moment with coming to accept his ADHD. The person who told me this is my son's psychiatrist (who gives him meds- no therapy ). He also explained that there really is not a behavior component to ADHD at this level, although the ADHD can be compounded by behavioral issues/ other medical conditions, ie OCD. What needs to happen is that, in order to adapt, the child needs to change the incomplete process to a whole one. Being congniscent of this is a big first step. Behavior needs to change to an optimum processing point.
Interesting on the brain maturation.. and is in line with this analogy. I agree that there is a blurring. Because of that, it is doubly difficult to accurately diagnose the ADHD.

Coming to the realization that my son has ADHD has brought me to think about my own maturation. I remember saying things too quickly, interupting, being distracted,annoying, etc but over time played the game and learned a way to adapt. More thought provocation.. and maybe now I have an explanation to my mom's not always completing sentences and jumping from one subject to the next, all interesting but difficult to follow for many. She would be engaged in conversation and unless you knew her you would say.. what did she say? only at times like when she was excited about a subject. I remember noticing this about her and deciding I did not want to do that as I wanted to fit in.. so I worked at it when the words came out too fast and furious. There is definitely a fine line between creative and maybe not fitting in.

I can also remember running the different scenarios in my head and analyzing what I did wrong in scenario A... changing it up, but still not quite right to scenario B..etc ... eventually it became natural. I am not gifted, but fully capable and rather analytical. I remember childhood IQ testing around 130 .. so that may be the difference.. I am able to fit in easier than those who are in the 150 or 160 range. My brother who is in the 150-160 range never fit in socially growing up and he does not have ADHD.. others would say he was odd. He fits in fine as a research engineer and is great with his kids but still awkward in new social situations. It is quite intriguing to think about the similarities and differences between gifted and ADHD thought... combine the 2 and there you have it... challenge in the making

My son is so challenging as 1. he is highly gifted 2. he is a boy (girls and boys process differently any way you look at it) 3. personality plays a role in it. Have you ever read the book "Personality Plus" by Florence Lithour (?sp)? She also wrote a book "Personality Plus for Parents" or similar title. Helps with understanding your kids, others. Four basic personalities and we are a combination of them. There are other books describing the personality combinations, maybe different names. My son is a Choleric- Sanguine. It seems with me the choleric comes out. He will argue any sentence, any subject, anything... and he will always be right.. Yes, add the gifted factor... argues his way up the knowledge ladder.. .plus he down right knows more than me already...or make that he did 5 yrs ago.
I think those with ADHD can focus, but I think they have to think about it .. when interested in something and intently into it, I think the processes slow down allowing that focus. I love all the different viewpoints and find myself gravitating to this forum at the end of the day.. way to unwind.. always had difficulty shutting down the brain at night... ADHD? or biological clock set on late night... or doesn't everyone need only 4-5hrs of sleep? My brother needs 8 or 9... All of this is thought provokding... umm

You know, I've heard this also, but I know several real little boys in real life who are diagnosed with ADHD and really can't focus on anything besides video games or TV - one not even that, without their medication. I are sorely tempted to guess that the hyperfocus observation is rooted in seeing gifted kids who have been misdiagnosed as ADHD acting like Gifted Kids when interested, and like ADHD kids at school. I'm not a doctor, but it does fit the data.

some (many? several?) Gifted kids certianly have OverExcitabilites that can be motor or otherwise that make a classroom a living xxxx. Readiness level placement can help, but for HG/PG kids, readiness level placement may not really be possible in a school that isn't flexible, because all the abilities don't come in at the same time - so a 8 year old may be 'ready' for discussions in a high school english class, but no way ready emotionally for the topics of the books of the written output. Good news is that it doesn't have to be a perfect fit for the experience to be worthwhile. Once just may have to give up the idea of having a perfectly well behaved and fitting in kid. BTW - hat's off to all of you with lovely children who are well behaved at school. I don't want to tar them with my son's brush. I do want to be sure they aren't missing out on 'learning how to learn' because they are so socially able, but that's a different post. And I do believe in the self-enriching child who really can make a silk purse and learn how to challenge themselves in any environment, I just don't happen to live with one of those!

Smiles,
Grinity

((skeptical look))
I agree with the second statement, but 130 is gifted, dear. I'm assuming of course that if you were told that you were 125, 126 or 127 - you would be saying 'around 125,' yes?

But I'm glad you are coming around to wind down. Lovely isn't it?

Smiles,
Grinity

Hi Grinity,

I am quite sure that I would have agreed with you on this a few years ago. But since DH (who is PG, has a PhD from a highly competitive grad school) was diagnosed with ADD a few years ago, I will tell you that what Questions says is completely true. The kids you describe are probably the most likely to get diagnosed with ADHD, but hyperfocus is part of the diagnosis for many kids who have ADD (not ADHD.)

DH's hyperfocus is amazing and allowed him to excel in his field and because of this we never thought he could have ADD. But the problem is that he has no middle gears; he is either not focused or completely focused. And for most daily household tasks (and especially when you are raising a child) middle gears are really appropriate. You cook dinner and keep an ear out for what your kid is doing and answer a question about what time practice is tomorrow all at the same time. DH could not do this level of multitasking without becoming overwhelmed. The ADD meds help him stay in this middle place. He tells me that with the meds, he feels "like himself."

I have known other HG+ folks who were the same way and the ADD meds saved their marriages. I'm not suggesting that we medicate everyone, but only that we not write off a diagnosis that could be helpful.

The DSM manual, which psychiatric practitioners use in determining a diagnosis, used to separate ADD and ADHD into 2 diagnoses. Now it is ADHD with subsets as the inattentive component is present in both. My son would have ADD in the "old way" of diagnosing as he really does not have the hyper component. I resisted the thought that it could be ADD for some time because I knew he was gifted- although was never tested and just chalked it up to that. The Montesorri school did minimal testing other than state required. I too agree with (ACS) that there is a place for medication. I hope that one day my son will get to a point of maturation that he will not need medication. Even though I know there is more to it than "maturation"; Versus medication, that he has learned a way to find what you call that middle ground. What mom doesn't want their child to be perfect and normal ... whatever that is. On the other hand, if all it takes is some medication for him to have that "normal" life.. than is it that big of a deal?

DSM IV Criteria for Diagnosis of AD/HD
In brief, the current diagnostic criteria include:
-At least 6 of 9 symptoms of inattention AND/OR
-At least 6 of 9 symptoms of hyperactivity and/or impulsivity
-Presence of symptoms prior to age 7
-Presence of symptoms in at least two different settings (e.g., school and home)
-Clear evidence of significant impairment in several arenas
-Symptoms cannot be better explained by another medical or
psychiatric disorder
-Adolescents and adults who no longer meet full criteria may be described as �in partial remission�.
*********************************************
According to the DSM-IV TR, there are three subtypes:

-Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Combined Type

-Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Inattentive Type

-Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type

The DSM-V is expected to address a variety of diagnostic issues that are currently being debated among those in the field. In particular, it is anticipated that the DSM-V coming out in 2011 will expand and clarify the diagnostic criteria by setting clear guidelines for diagnosing adults as well as addressing age of onset. The DSM-V is also likely to layout expanded guidelines for subtypes
My oberservation is that as anything in medicine, there is nothing exact and it can only be an attempt to classify. The closer/ better the classification, the better one can treat.

Good point!

I was sort of hoping that we could get to where we could see 'hyperfocus' as both a thing that sometimes goes with ADHD and a thing that sometimes goes with just plain PG and a thing that sometimes is just part of a person's personality. I don't want to throw the whole ADHD baby out with the bathwater, but it surely does frustrate me when folks treat every 'non-ND' behavior my DS exhibits as signs ADHD.

My guess is that 20 years from now we will be thinking of a cluster of 5 or 6 different 'brain weaknesses' + environmental demand interactions that cluster together to give the behaviors and appearances that we now are calling ADHD/ADD.

The point is to help our kids and our families as best we can today, given the tools that are availible now.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

BTW -
For a long time I yearned to read Deirdre Lovecky's 'Dirrerent Minds Gifted Chidren with AD/HD, Asperger Syndrome, and Other Leraning Deficits.' Then I bought it, and it is still on my nightstand. I seem not to be able to get it into my brain!

Has anyone read it? enjoyed? have opinions or tips to share? Perhaps we should start a bookclub for it?

Thanks,
Grinity

I read like a fiend about gifted and ADHD and every combination thereof while trying to figure out in my own mind whether my son was in fact afflicted with ADHD, and whether I should leap in that unknown world of the medicated mind. I checked out books from the library, bought a few, and for the life of me cannot remember any book in particular. All I remember is that I came to the realization that if I did not do something, my son could be come a statistic... another bright child who fails in the real world and all because I would not help him because I was too proud. I am thankful I jumped as I know now that he has a real problem with disorganization and inattention. It became more evident as organization required of him. He now realizes it too, but still needs lots of external guidance to organize his world. I think it will get better... I will need to research that book you mention, as I do not specifically recall, although sounds familiar...
By the way, you are correct.. I did minimize my talents in an effort to fit in with the "normal" kids. I was in all the advanced classes and with all the "odd" kids and enjoyed the intellectual stimulation... but had to balance it out with 1 class with those "average" kids, something like home econ... you know the easy A for just sitting there. I think it is tough for bright teenagers because they do want to fit in. I am sensitive to that with my son as he has always had difficulty fitting in with kids his age. He has made a couple of friends in his track at school.. his best friend though is not in his classes and actually struggles some with learning. They are in scouts together and they have an ok friendship where they just hang out and do kid things; quite the symbiotic relationship.. one helping the other learn and the other teaching the otherhow to be a kid.

For the most part, I think DH and I see his hyperfocus as a real asset to him. It's actually one of the reasons I fell in love--it can be really nice to have someone pay their full attention to just you! Certainly it is what got the dissertation written.

The problem is that he has only the two gears: hyperfocus and no focus. I don't think that the hyperfocus is the problem per se, but for people who have ADD and hyperfocus and are successful in school, the hyperfocus masks the underlying problem which is the inability to appropriately modulate levels of attention. Because DH was so successful in school, no one suspected that he had ADD.

We have chosen not to treat what I think is the same condition in DS because he is doing really well in school. But I do think he needs to understand that there are neurologic reasons why he has trouble remembering things that aren't interesting to him and there are ways to overcome that to some degree. We talk about strategies and brainstorm ideas. If we start to see him failing, falling behind, or suffering because of the issues, then--like Wondermom-- we would consider medication for DS.

I would agree that when focused, lots can be accomplished, whether it is at an intellectual or emotional level. I love to watch my son when he is in the mode and off on a new tangent and inventing something new... the ideas fly and I just do a ... WOW! where does he get this from... blows my mind. He is also so sensitive and I can see him as an adult when he is married and because he is so emotional, I sense he will pay attention as so many men do not.
Many people have done wonderous things when in the hyperfocus mode... How may times did Edison fail before he came up with the light bulb? Did Einstein come up with his theory of relativity the first time he did a math problem?

My son did very well with the explanation given by his psychiatrist when he was 9y/o... The minds eye, minds movie theatre, etc that I mentioned in a previous post. It made sense to him... I think that is an important thing to realize.... and I think that is a process, at least that is my observation as I watch my son mature... How can one change behavior or find a way to cope with a physical/ neurological deficit, if you first do not realize you have it? I did not take the thought of medication lightly... it was a process and you have to do what feels right to you... I normally research new things to the max until I understand... then I make a decision...you just have to go with your gut/ intuition, once you feed the information to your brain... mmm

Grinity, I did check that book out of the library and read it and was intrigued... It was once of the ones that I read entirely through. I still struggle with what the rigid school system is doing to stifle my son's giftedness and foster his ADHD... shouldn't it be the other way around???? Why I started reaching out.. keeps coming back full circle to the school system and my frustration related...

I agree with this thought - I'd love to see it be the other way around! And yes - this is a pretty good summation of the current state of affairs in most places at this time.

Smiles,
Grinity

Hi, all. I keep going in circles on this one with respect to DS7. Is it ADD and/or is it the GT thing? We had him tested only for the first and didn't know (officially) about the latter, but it was confirmed during testing. I'm wondering if we should get a consult from someone with an expertise in both. There are certainly ADD symptoms, but we don't really know the cause. And DS is not intellectually accommodated in school - at all. I think the world of the psych who tested DS, and am incredibly grateful for the help and the knowledge we've received. But I'm wondering if in fact he is at the top in some areas whether I need to seek out the GT expertise as well. Suggestions?

I would suggest reading all you can on the 2 subjects and anything that compares the 2. I know that it helped me tremendously. What I found in both my readings and through observation of my son, is that as the GT child who has ADHD grows older the disparity between cognitive ability and EQ- emotional quotient become larger.

My son was difficult to diagnose at an early age. I always knew he was gifted as he was way advanced in development and showed a progressive ability to apply new words and concepts to new situations acurately- there were lots of "woah.. how does he know that?.. he amazes me... he only heard that once.. he's been reading the newspaper?. etc"

The way it was explained to me when he was eventually diagnosed with ADHD at 10 was that he was able to compensate cognitively for his processing deficit. As he grew older he was easier to diagnose because the difference between his cognitive and emotional age became larger. There is a disparity for the GT child, but when the child is both GT and ADHD the disparity is larger. I found that both in what I read and with personal experience.

At the age of 7, my son seemed more like a 4-5y/o emotionally, but was capable of thought processes of a 9 or 10y/o. He gravitated toward 5y/o's for play time, engaging in imaginative role playing like the pied piper on the playground... or to 9 or 10 y/o's, who because of my son's large size, thought he was 9 as he could engage in conversation at their level. He also captivated his teachers in conversation, although they would pick up on mild behavior immaturities. Nothing glaring.

As he grew older there were more signs of ADHD, mostly in stressfull situations... There was more silly out of place behavior and not fitting in with his peers both because he was immature with noises, acting silly and he was always disorganized with a desk you would expect a few rodents to jump out of. In 4th grade he was testing at 8th+ grade level, and just not fitting in with his peers at school. This became more evident as he grew older. It seems he has grown faster than the norm cognitively but slower emotionally. The other kids could not relate to him cognitively or to socially because of his acting goofy/ immature. The disparity became quite evident at age 10 and that is when the decision was to test him with a child psychologist who was known to be experienced with GT. He first took the explore test at 10 and that is when his cognitive ceiling was 1st tested- he loved taking the test and still loves them as they challenge him. Parents/teachers all filled out questionaires which helped in ADHD assessment.

Between 7 and 10, I had the mindset that as long as he is doing ok in school, when he matures he will fit in better.. actually I found the opposite. I also kept telling myself that although they are not challenging him cognitively in school, he will always have that and my focus needed to be on the socialization/ emotional concerns as that is learned behavior. It is to an extent. The problem is the ADHD really does get in the way and as the discrepancy gets larger... you almost have to do something or things will fall apart. Home was not really an issue... it was in the school setting. At home he received all the intellectual stimulation he needed so less ADHD behaviors, except when anxious/ excited about going somewhere new/ party, etc he was unbearable and could not calm himself down.

I think it is a process and if it is ADHD, it will reveal itself (same for GT and ADHD/GT combined). Educate yourself on each as you are the best person to decipher. Input additional information from resources available to you such as teachers, parents, GT program teachers, speakers on the subject. I happened to know an excellent child psychiatrist who referred me to a collegue. Talk to a few professionals and interview them. There are differences in the questionaires and differences in practioner's opinions. My son's peditrician who I respect was certain he was just gifted.. but he saw him at age 1 with a 25-30 word vocabulary so that was his focus. He also did great with adults. My son did well in a Montesorri program ( he was there 1st -4th grade), as although structured, there is flexibility which is great for both the gifted and ADHD child. There is no ceiling to learning. Grouping of grades worked well at both a cognitive and emotional level with grades 1-3 in the same classroom. You may want to check that out.