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    #14407 04/22/08 08:18 PM
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    I am looking for guidance. My 12y/o is gifted and has ADHD- mostly with signs of disorganization and distraction at times. Although he walks a fine line into boredom He was in Montesorri thru 4th gr. Since 5th grade, he is in public school in WI. I am frustrated with the curriculum. I feel that advanced should not mean more work, it should mean a faster learning pace as the children placed there should theoretically grasp concepts faster and therefore be able to move faster. Reality is that it is task oriented and repetitive. My son gets bored and they blame it on disorganization. It is likely a combination of both. His class test scores are generally A's. He starts each quarter doing well with best intentions, then tanks mid quarter. He has brought it back up to a 3.0 each quarter ( from C- F grades). What I keep finding is he does not hand in or "forgets" to do assignments that he describes as tedious and repetitive. He has recently described himself as lazy which is new. He is always seeking knowledge no matter what learning medium. In his computer class last quarter I found him at an F level mid quarter. He had not handed in 5 assignments which were to circle words that are related to computers... rather boring and something a 1st grader could do... easy A if you like to do tasks. He handed them in, did some extra credit and within a week he was up to a B+. Other classes are the same only different assignments. It is as if he is not feeling challenged. He complains that he does not understand why he has to keep doing the same thing over and over. The teachers say that you have to show the work so as to show mastery... and this is the advanced programming. He aces the tests, but their idea of mastery is a multitude of assigments of the same. He looks forward to tests as they are "fun". My son tests in the top 1% on the usual tests and tested a 23 on the explore and is 22-23 across the board. Next year they have 3 advanced programming options: Science, Comm Arts, Math. They base placement for next year on both testing and grades. Testing is not an issue as he tests consistently off the charts. My son is accepted into Science and Comm arts and per the principle, the thought is it may be best to have my son in only 2 advanced classes as he may be overwhelmed with 3 due to the amount of work. Focus is on task. Then I get an email from the spectrum/ gifted teacher who asks whether he should only be in 1 gifted class- science as she would like to see him be successful.... They just do not get it. My son can and does do the work when it is interesting and challenging. The state suggested IEP for 10% of the gifted whose needs are not met in either the regular classroom or through enrichment. I just can't afford a private school and I have to work so I can't home school him. I am wondering if there are any other parents out there that are dealing with similar situations. A child who is gifted and has ADD(mild) is challenging to parent... What is the most frustrating is the school sees that he is gifted and that he has great potential.... but they do not challenge him... instead they throw more work at him or write it off as that he cannot handle the work. Hegets bored with the amount of repetitive task work, they chalk it off to his Add and disorganization. Yes, he needs to organize better and he is working on that and it's getting better as he matures... but that is too easy of an answer. It is such a cookie cutter approach. Like trying to fit a shining star into a round hole. He just says the grades aren't important, it is more important that he learns something new- he meets that need by watching educational channels and research outside of school. I was searching the internet for gifted programming, when I stumbled upon the Davidson Acadamy. Wow... this looks like what he needs... I need to investigate. My son has never fit in with his age group.. always with either those a few years older/ adults or with kids lots younger... so it is a big decision to leave his friends. I need to be sure. He meets the criteria in regard to testing... problem is I don't think his school sees him as he truly is... and would they give + accalades? Need to have references. I have this vision that his teachers would not do that as of course they want him there for funding, just stay within the progamming lines. I am looking for other parents who are dealing with public schooling of a gifted child with ADD. What have you found works? What about Davidson Academy for a gifted child with mild learning disabilities. Are there other programs which would work from a child such as mine? I just hate to squash my child's mind in an attempt to conform.

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    Wondermom, as a teacher and tutor to many kids, I have certainly come across kids that fit your son to a T. I understand your frustration and his. I can only say that, when your son gets to college, there are plenty of teachers that have homework as an extra credit, or as a grade-turner, if the person is on a cusp. But this is not the case with all teachers, some count homework as a small percentage, others as a larger percentage.
    I tell my students, it's a game, and it's rigged, and its your choice (per class) as to what you want to be your outcome.
    Perhaps if your son looked at it this way, he'd be more hopeful. But now, as it stands, the game is stacked firmly against him that he has to turn in assignments. Tell him it's a math challenge; perhaps he only needs 60 percent or so (in that he can toss them off in a few minutes) just to get the points? PLAY THE GAME, I tell my students. And do it quickly, because I know you hate it, but please play. TURN IN ASSIGNMENTS. Do them in five minutes. Do anything!
    I can probably guarantee they won't be the worst assignments turned in...
    In that way I can get some of my kids through the courses they are bored to death with. BTW my work primarily deals with CC kids, and LD kids, etc.
    In regards to Davidson, they have homework there too... so it's wise to just learn to do the work, period. (and if it is truly below one's station, then one must quickly churn it out as fast as possible.)

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    I guess that the question for your son and mine is this - would he rather do dull homework now for 20 minutes a day, or work a dull job later, 8 hours a day? Test scores alone will not get him into a competitive college - he needs to show the schools that he can
    1) figure out what the teachers want
    2) give the teachers what they want.

    I'm not 'in favor' of our current system, but it is our current system. I would encourage him to start some kind of business on his own this summer so he can see the downside of leaving himself without the option of doing things the 'regular' way.

    I would love to see him at Davidson Academy, if you can get there. I share with you the feeling that the regular track is just not meeting my son's needs. BTW - at 12 you can consider leaving him home while you work, and letting him homeschool independently. Community Colleges are an option. Look around for local homeschooling parents who might 'take him in.'

    In the meantime, I would watch 'The Karate Kid' with your son. Washing the Master's Car seemed 'mind-squashing' at the time, but turned out to be mind-body training. Of course that's just a movie, but since you have freedom of perspective, it might present a more useful way to frame the problem. I'm never sure which of my son's experiences will turn out to be 'just right' for his future. Will doing mindless homework make it easier for him to change diapers and stay up with colicy offspring in his future? Who knows?

    Finally, I would lobby the school really strongly to give him all three honors track classes. My guess it that if he starts and does poorly he can do fewer next year, but if he does well in one or two, that he will not be allowed to join the track midstream. That argument maybe will influence the school. The other idea I have is to imagine the money required for relocation or private school and then hire a tutor to met with him daily and help him get organized.

    My son faces similar issues, and somehow, after trying and trying, found a notebook with an outside envelope that he uses exclusivly for homework, and active classroom projects. So there may be some ways to engineer a higher success rate. His school also has electronic gradebook, so I can see if are any outstanding homeworks by checking up on him. We also are starting to have email weekly reports from each teacher that determine how much weekend computer access DS11 will have. I send out an 'How was the week?' email on Friday mornings to each teacher, and they respond.

    Best Wishes,
    Grinity



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    I want to say thank you to those that have responded. Really great pointers and it is good to know I am not the only one with these challenges.. seems harder as we get into the teen years. My son is medicated as well with Concerta for the past 2yrs. Didn't pick up on the ADHD until 4th grade as he was always able to compensate cognitively. I am also working on behavioral strategies. I have tried 3 different trapper keepers with various metods and he just recently is buying in to using one and rationalizes that other kids in his class are using them. Some parents do the work for their child and only worry about the grades. I strongly believe that what is most important is that he learn how to study/ complete the work... "play the game" and I have had that discussion with him and have brought his teachers in on that along with a nephew who is in college and tutors freshman on study skills... trying different approaches. He knows that he is capable of an A, so a B is average ( or like a C). I have always checked grade check behind he scenes, but try to let him on his own until I need to step in as want him to develop his own skills- don't want to control him. We started this year that if his grade dips below a B, I will need to look at his work daily until his grades are up to ensure it is done, etc. My rationale is that he dips so quick cause he forgets to do/hand in assigments. I am also emailing them weekly or if I notice an issue and it helps. A measure of doing is the grade. I have uppe the the anty to anything under an A as the year progresses as the contention is he should know the rhythm by now. He seems tied into it some..ADHD does seem to get in the way, as he forgets things. He does admit he is lazy. That is why this quarter keeping on him tighter so as to show him the difference in grades if you just do the work. I have had the real world discussion with him and that we all have to do the mundane... reality.. find a fun way to deal with it. I keep doing my best and I know the ADHD is the extra factor that throws a proverbial wrench in the mix... I just have a hard time with the school placing him in the regular classroom as that places a bigger wrench in the mix... I appreciate the suggestion for lobbying with the school for all 3 advanced as this year he was in the 2 advanced they offer, literacy and math... decided to pick literacy as a drop down to regular mid 1st quarter as he wasn't handing in the work... and his grade was worse in the regular classroom. The principle was saying if he shows that he can do the work next year, he may be able to go in the advanced in 8th grade... that is too long for a bored child.. seems like punishment. I did ask if he could move sooner and I received a vague response...still have to think on that. Maybe I am making too big of a deal about it, but it is such an uphill battle as it is. I think I will beef up the reward system... he was at a bday party sat where the birthday boy got a handheld playstation... great incentive... I will also revisit with his doc for possible increase in medication/ adjustment... growing like a weed in height/ weight.. may help too. My son has been a challenge from birth because of his abilities combined with his immaturity... I will keep plugging along. I am grateful for each response. It sure helps! I do appreciate a teachers perspective... I keep telling my son to just do the work... I just need to find a way to get him to follow- through with that. All of the pointers are great..maybe a study skills class/ tutor? I did try to have the guidance Co meet with him on that, didn't do much. thanks to all .

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    Wondermom,
    It seems that you have been spying on our homelife - Wow this sounds so familiar! All it takes is that last try with the notebook to find the one that works. I also insist on a daily homework check in subject where grades are slipping, and last year I insisted on emailing the homework to the Teachers the night before, and then havinging him hand the printout in. This worked so well that the teachers discouraged me from continuing to insist on this, and there has been some slippage, but mostly not. I figure these are the years to allow 'some' learning the hard way.

    Incentives are key, medication check is key - we don't use ADHD meds, but I got into this trouble with Tylenol dosage! Staying on top of vision and hearing checks, and dental check ups just to rule out the obvious distractions.

    Last night we had a high point and a low point.
    Low: Found out that DS11 didn't actually have the 4 page homework handout for this week although I sure thought he said he did. (My DS will lie when cornered about homework - Ostridge with head in sand.)
    High: He had to write a paragraph on how a quote relates to his personal life. He finds this particularly challenging as he never gets any ideas, and he often isn't willing to PTG (play the game) enought to use the teacher's suggestion. He isn't being graded on the idea, just the execution - right? But last night I asked him if he was willing to PTG and he said yes. I asked if I could give him an idea, he said yes, and he typed up the paragraph in under 5 minutes. In times past he would have railed against using an idea that he hadn't come up with himself, be mad at me for 'taking the good idea' and basically it would have been a 2 hour process of tantrum to get the 5 minutes of work.

    So - have faith, they do mature, just not quite fast enough.

    Smiles,
    Grinity


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    Originally Posted by eema
    ....One of the hallmarks of ADHD is the complete ability to focus on interesting tasks and the inability to focus on boring tasks.
    ...


    eema, I thought the hallmark of ADHD was the inability to focus on any task?

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    I was misdiagnosed as ADHD in third grade. And by the leading expert at the time, a Dr. who is still highly respected in the field of medicine and this specialty. I was taken off ritalin when it was clear it was not affecting the behavior.
    Admittedly, looking back, my behavior was classic ADHD, which of course, I don't like to admit. smile
    My husband does have ADD and his behavior is markedly different when he takes his medicine. I can tell you within 15 minutes after he wakes up whether or not he takes it. He's extremely argumentative and intense emotion seeking (usually needles me until I start yelling). When he has taken his concerta he just doesn't do it. If the concerta didn't work, I'm not sure we would still be married. smile
    We were concerned DD5 had ADHD, but one of the things I was told is that she concentrates fine when she wants to/is interested. It is a behavioral issue, just not ADHD.
    I'm not trying to say you son doesn't have ADHD, good grief, I certainly would't know!!! smile For all I know my daughter does have ADHD and they are attributing to0 many of the traits to giftedness, and I will keep an eye out just in case, given the family history.
    I am biased, though, at having a pediatric nuerologist or psychologist/psychiatrist make that diagnosis, vs. a pediatrician. Just because of my personal experience. Just being honest about where my bias lias. smile
    Whatever is going on, we all know our kids can be a REAL BIG handful, and I can tell you are the kind of mom who is up to the challenge.

    P.S. feel free to meet me in the back of my virtual closet with my virtual bottle of vodka any time!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Neato

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    Interesting, as I've been told that ADHD/ADD kids have the ability/desire to hyperfocus on things that interest them but not on what they consider boring, tedious work. In fact, it's been explained to me that it takes so much effort for them to focus that they don't want to make the effort unless they see the value to them (e.g., interesting, or there is other motivation). And when they realize that what they focused on was meaningless to them (e.g., work that's too easy or that they've already mastered) they can get very frustrated and upset.

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    just out of curiousity, who told you that?

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    Both the testing psychologist and the OT, although the OT says she doesn't know whether DS's problem with boring work is due to GT or "attentional issues." Psych's report was inconclusive, although DS's pediatrician said not ADD b/c only possible symptoms in school setting, and teacher contradicted herself on the forms she filled out. FYI, I have seen the hyperfocus thing on ADHD websites.

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