Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Question about anxiety and school trips

My 3rd grade dd has had anxiety off and on since she was 5/6 yo. My girls go to an outbound expeditionary school that does overnight camping trips and the principal is very clear that if you decide to have your kids go to their school the trips are mandatory. Last year dd's trips were just one night, this year they are for 2 nights. The first one she managed to go but she is already expressing concern about the next trip in the spring. And then next year it will be 3 nights. She is seeing a counselor for the anxiety (general anxiety, not just trip related).

My question is, if she feels she can not do these trips would a note from the counselor work as a medical reason that she can opt out of the trips? Would the principal have the ability to kick dd out of school for not going? Or would dd be protected given this is a disability? Fwiw this is a public magnet school and we don't sign a contract.

mountainmom, my concern would be that letting her off the hook about the trips would feed the anxiety, making it worse, not better. Sometimes if you acknowledge that the unreasonable concerns are real by letting them influence choices, they become more of a problem.

Were she my DD, I'd probably work through this using cognitive-behavior therapy principles: facing the anxiety, thinking through which anxious thoughts about the trip are realistic and which are not, practicing strategies for arguing against unreasonable negative thoughts. ("What if we see a bear?" "I've studied bear habitats and I know there are few bears in this area at this time of year." Or whatever arguments are necessary to combat the fear, as a lawyer would rebut a false argument.) For realistic fears, you can help her brainstorm strategies for solving those problems.

I'd also seek to connect her with a trusted adult who will be on the trip, so that if she becomes worried on the trip, she will know who to turn to.

DeeDee

Um, nope. This doesn't sit well with me. No one tells me what is "mandatory" for my children. (Just my two cents... sorry, I know that doesn't help with your post topic).

In our school district, everything is "ultimately the parents' decision," from school trips all the way down to daily attendance. Curriculum objectives are still tracked, of course, but everything my kids participate in or opt out of is my choice.

@DeeDee

I understand what you say about feeding the anxiety and that's why the decision isn't one to be taken lightly. For other reasons as well, the trips really help them bond as friends and a class and she would be missing out on that. She has time until the trips go to 4 days and I tell her not to worry about it now, that we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

In regards to a trusted adult on the trip, that will be a hard thing to accomplish for several reasons. First off, dd is very good at hiding her anxiety to those she doesn't trust or isn't close to. Last year, when she was going to go on her very first trip she was expressing concern about it. I tried to talk to the school about it. Immediately they assumed it was 'my problem' (meaning I didn't want her to go) and I think this is b/c what usually happens, parents afraid to have their kids go on a trip. They also thought this because, on the surface, my dd hides these fears very well. Her teachers have no clue she is so anxious.

Another problem is her teacher is male so he won't be in her group. He will be around, he just won't be with her 24/7. They have parent volunteers (they sign up or are announced 1-2 weeks before the trips) and a mom will be assigned to her group. Who that is we won't know until shortly before, and she only knows one mom very closely and I know that mom can't/doesn't go because she has a toddler at home. And like I said, my dd wouldn't even share with somebody how she is feeling so they would just assume she is doing fine.

We are in counseling to help her with her anxiety since it isn't something exclusive to school trips.

@CCN

That is why during the parent interviews (prior to parents even applying to the school) the principal makes it clear that it's a 'package deal' and if you don't want your kids going on the trips than don't apply. I, personally, don't have a problem with the trips. I think it is good for the kids honestly. I have a younger dd who enjoys the trips. It's just the older dd is struggling b/c of her anxiety. Seeing how it is a magnet school (thus funded through the district) can they really decide to kick my dd out of their school b/c she is unable 'medically/emotionally' to go on the trips.

Though I can see DeeDee's point about how avoiding stimuli can often make anxiety worsen, I think it is fair to note that this is a potentially prolongued anxiety-provoking situation with potentially no built-in support available. I really sympathize with your concerns.

Is your dd able to express what exactly about the trip makes her anxious? I would absolutely work with her counselor to try to help dd clarify this: is it just being away for two days, or having a panic-attack without support nearby, or what the bathrooms will be like?

Once she can clarify this (if she is able to have that insight), then the counselor can help you determine if this is an anxiety that can be managed with a set of 'tools' she can use or if this anxiety is severe enough that it could cause further harm (ie: teaching one who's scared of water to swim by throwing them in the deep end).

If the latter is the case, I would most certainly have the counselor write a letter (backed up by her PCP...sometimes schools get a little dismissive of those without an MD behind their name).

I would also make sure that there is a plan in place with an adult who is on the trip if dd's anxiety increases which may include things like deep breathing, spending extra time with adults or call(s) to home. You can even pre-write notes of comfort/encouragement that dd could open when she is getting overwhelmed.

...and I totally understand what you mean about kids who 'hide' their anxiety. They often do a marvelous job at appearing "normal"...and suffer deeply on the inside.

At least there's that... It's good that they're clear about it. If you have a doctor's note, though, citing an exceptional circumstance... I don't think they can force your DD.

I do agree with the other posters about enabling anxiety, though... mind you, there's a line between gently pushing them out of their comfort zone Vs. traumatizing them. It's such a tough call. I've walked this fine line with my DD her whole life. Sometimes I'm happy to have pushed her, other times I regret it, and still other times when I haven't pushed her I wonder what would have happened if I had. I've tried to push her without being too extreme (like, just past that comfort zone so she can "look back and still see it" if you know what I mean). She's really come a long way.

It's interesting that your DD has already gone on a trip and still has anxiety (this would happen with my DD too - while sometimes being put in an anxiety provoking situation would result in "phew! what was I afraid of?" still other times it would create more anxiety and trepidation towards a repeat experience).

Maybe you could have more conversations about the last trip, like "what were you worried about?" and "did what you worried about actually happen?" and "do you see how you are fine and everything turned out fine?" etc etc.

I also agree with Evemomma that this situation is tricky because it's prolonged anxiety... so is that pushing her too far? Particularly since the anxiety has persisted even after a previous successful trip? (Or does it just require gradual and multiple attempts for desensitization?) Not sure...

An example off the top of my head (there are many, lol): I pushed my DD to go through with her turn to read the school announcements over the intercom system, and while she succeeded, she never wanted to do it again, and that was only about 45 seconds (plus whatever lead-up anxiety she felt). I don't think it helped, and ultimately culminated with her hiding behind her teacher's desk when it was her turn to do an in-class presentation. (sigh). THIS year, however, she's been able to do another presentation without fleeing and hiding (yay!!!). Not sure why... a delayed reaction to multiple times of being pushed, or simply a result of aging and maturation?

Sorry... I know that doesn't help much... there's no clear cut answer. I'd try and get a doctor/counselor's note, though, just in case you feel like you need it.

I have had anxiety since I was a child. I sometimes went to two or three day long church camps and later, as an adult, had to go to out-of-state work related conferences. I would have anxiety for weeks before the events and the entire time I was at the event, but I knew I had to hide it and I always did what I had to do. Now that I am older the anxiety is still there and it causes problems with my blood pressure. Those well-meaning people who made me do things I was not comfortable with left me thinking I had to conform to their expectations of what was normal and I did learn to do that, but my anxiety was still there and causing health issues.

My son also has the ability to look like he is not anxious on the outside and keep going. He is a good actor. But he cannot fool the blood pressure monitor.

I don't think the principal should be able to kick your daughter out of school for not going.

Can you go with her on the next trip?

I don't think that she can be kicked out, but I wonder if perhaps it's not the school to have her in if her anxiety is debilitating to the extent that she's worrying (actively and frequently) about the trip this far in advance?

Two of my kids go to a school that has end-of-year overnight trips that increase in length as the kids progress to upper level grades. It's an integral part of the school's curriculum, but I do know of at least one child who didn't participate last year (not due to anxiety, due to parent concerns about the appropriateness of sending a child that age away overnight without a parent). The thing that happens at our school is that the trip gets mingled in with the curriculum toward the end of the year - the students are involved in projects that are part of the trip and require pre-planning (and very cool learning). As well as the projects, there's a lot of anticipation on the part of the kids who are going. If you think your dd isn't ever going to be comfortable with this type of experience imbedded into school, and if it evolves the way the trips at our school evolve, I would seriously consider that the principal's request is valid and possibly consider transferring my dd to a different school next year.

OTOH, I think the trips can be a wonderful experience for children to overcome anxieties about travel, being away from parents etc and can build toward independence (as well as be great learning experiences and a lot of fun). My dd10 is very anxious about her trip but we talk about it ahead of time and she doesn't know it's not an option (she might opt to not go if she did). I am not comparing her to your dd - my dd does not have severe anxiety across the board, but she gets anxious about being away from us and about new experiences (and being on stage).... so we work on having her go through those experiences so she can realize that she can. Again, I wouldn't do this for a child who is struggling with severe, across-the-board-anxiety - but if that was the case, I also would worry about leaving them in the program where an end-of-year trip is part of the curriculum based on our experiences at our school.

I also don't know if you'd run into this issue with the school or not, but I'm guessing this is an optional/charter school... and in our district the optional/charter schools can to a certain extent determine their own school policies. They are still federally funded and have to follow Federal Law, but I can imagine (just based on our charter school experiences where we live) that the school might be able to pursuade a family to not attend if they wouldn't agree to the trip.. and that it might be difficult to argue FAPE was being denied in this type of case.

polarbear