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    #142125 11/03/12 10:21 AM
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    petunia Offline OP
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    Okay, so what do you do when your child won't do anything you say, ignores requests/commands to get his homework done, won't load the washer like you've asked half a dozen times, hides under the bed and won't talk to you, refuses to do his horn and piano practice, basically makes the day miserable for himself and everyone else? I've had it and want to do drastic things - like pull him out of band (not necessarily a good long term thing to do) and stop all activities and not take him to any games or social things or do anything nice for him. Aaaughhh! I'm sick of this.

    He's 11 and in 7th grade. We just can't get through to him. I'm so frustrated.

    Last edited by petunia; 11/03/12 10:31 AM.

    What I am is good enough, if I would only be it openly. ~Carl Rogers
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    As an adult, I retreat like this when I need a break. Doing a quick assessment of importance/urgency gives me an idea of what I can afford let slide-- maybe your son is at an age where he's internalized this sort of process? (Or maybe he did this long ago.)

    I can't comment on the disciplinary side, as I haven't been in a similar situation yet. My son is too young, so it would just be a lot of hot air!


    What is to give light must endure burning.
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    You might try the "Transforming the Difficult Child" reward system. It works by attempting to remove all stimuli that might function as a reward, including all outwardly displayed anger, and by instituting a point-based currency system, under which a child must earn all privileges, but small failures result in only small losses of points.


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    Originally Posted by cairistoina
    I am in a similar situation. I have a 10 year old sixth grader and she blatnatly ignores just about everything I tell her to do. It's not like I am asking her to do anything difficult, just a few simple chores, making sure she keeps up with her homework, that kind of thing. Most of the time I just end up yelling at her, to which she turns around and says, "Why do you yell at me all the time?" Unfortunately, my younger child is beginning to follow her lead. Ugh!
    She's getting your goat, and she knows it. You should consider remaining calm at all times, and making her earn her privileges through good behavior. Don't get angry; instead, don't reward her negative behaviors, and give an incentive to correct them.


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    I think you need to negotiate a contract.

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    I second the recommendation to read Transforming The Difficult Child.

    When my kids were younger and decided defiance might be an acceptable attitude, this is what worked for me:

    I took them out to a special place they liked to go for lunch - just the two of us. While we were eating, I told them that their choices to disobey and not pitch in at home hurt the whole family. I described the stress it caused, explained the added burden it made for someone else, etc. and I asked them why the change in their choices. My kids were always pretty honest about why, and if there was something that had hurt them so that they were acting out or if there was an added chore that had made them feel overwhelmed, etc., they told me. We would take it through and negotiate.

    Once we agreed on what would work, I asked them for a commitment to live up to their responsibilities. And I laid out the consequences if they continued to create a disruption at home. I made sure the consequences were severe - no door on their room, no electronics, no distractions. I couched all of it in, "We are going to support your new commitment to doing your homework and your chores by helping you to stay focused on that. As long as you can stay focused on your own, we won't need to step in. But if we have to, then we'll remove all the distractions like your iPod, the computer except for homework, and your door, since we wouldn't want to make it more difficult for you to be distracted from your commitments once the door was closed."

    The fear of losing the door was enough for one of them that the miracle change happened overnight. The other of our older kids pushed, and they lost their door for a week. She escalated during that week, but we stuck to it. She finally realized upping the drama wasn't going to work and asked what it took to get the door back.

    My two now college kids recently told me that it was rather a challenge to see what they could "handle" in the way of consequences, so a scaled approach of little punishments at first never worked. It was part of the challenge for them and made it interesting. But once they lost their privacy (they still had the door on the bathroom, but how long can you hide in there with no iPod to entertain?), the fun of the challenge was gone. I think sometimes the gradual methods don't work on our kids, because they already live on the edges of things in their own mind and emotions.

    Last edited by ABQMom; 11/03/12 03:04 PM. Reason: IPad autocorrects galore
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    Well if you find yourself frequently yelling at your kids, maybe the first step is an anger management class for yourself. More than any other outcome you may be seeking in the moment, your children are learning to model your behavior both in what you respond to and how you respond to it. If you make everything a battle, so will they.

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    I pretend there's a TV camera filming me which helps me to stay calm and yell less (as in, how would I feel if my parenting was broadcast on the evening news). Sometimes I have to yell, but it's short, like one BOOMING sentence to get their attention. Then I use the low, calm and angry voice (lol) and that works (they go running). I think it works because I have been ridiculously consistent with consequences and also because I don't yell as much (any more wink ) because of my "imaginary TV camera."

    Mind you, my kids are 8 and 9, so this may lose its effectiveness in a couple of years.

    Petunia how consistent have you been with consequences? I know it's hard sometimes. My husband is really lousy at it. He says ridiculous things like "No Halloween!" (um, really? you're really not going to take them out trick or treating? REALLY?) ...whereas I'll say "no electronics for one week" (or something like that) and we track it on the calendar and discuss it every day.

    I would have a conversation with your son in a moment while you're both calm. Start with just one behaviour, and have a consequence planned. Explain that things need to change. Ask him why he's not cooperative (he might have what he thinks is a good reason - maybe he doesn't like touching dirty clothes or dishes - who knows). If you're both calm, you can open up a good dialogue. Let him have input as to how/when things are done. Then be very very clear. "You are expected to do this, or (consequence) will happen." ...and just follow through.

    PS - more on the "good reason" concept: When I was a kid, I went through a phase where it took me FOREVER to eat my breakfast (Corn Flakes). My mom used to get so frustrated. I never told her (so how was she supposed to know to understand!!) that I was going through a phase where I thought there were spiders in the cereal, hiding under the flakes. I can't recall how old I was. Anyway, as a result, I ate the cereal one flake at a time. My poor mom, exasperated because I wouldn't listen when she'd ask me to hurry up, probably thought that I was ignoring her out of rudeness. She had no idea that my non-compliance was phobia-based.

    Last edited by CCN; 11/04/12 08:18 AM.
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    petunia Offline OP
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    I will look into the book, but it seems like something we have tried before. In yesterday's case, the laundry was actually mine and all he had to do was pick it up, carry it to the washer and dump it in (because of my knee surgery a month ago, I can't do the bending and carrying part) so it was just brawn, not anything he had to think about. I was just asking him to help me out.

    We've already got him on tight restrictions as far as electronics and stuff. Consequences seem to do no good. The phobia thing is a good angle to think about as well.

    My husband is a lot like CCN's - he tends to give out unenforceable consequences. I'm more realistic and consistent. I know part of the problem is that if I give a consequence, my husband doesn't always remember it and enforce it. Sometimes, he does remember and lets son do whatever it is anyway, claiming "I'm too tired to enforce it".

    MON, you're right, he's basically a good kid and I forget that. I also tend to forget that he's 11, not 15. Although, some days he is 3!

    Thanks for all the ideas. Sometimes it just gets me very down and I wonder what I've done wrong or what's wrong with him.


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    Based on your last update, I'd look at two potential problem areas:

    Re tight restrictions: Have you given him a pathway to earning his privileges back? Or if the "tight restrictions" are the norm (for example, some families have strict policies on screen time), have you given him a pathway to earning extra rewards for positive behavior? If he feels like he's got nothing to gain or lose, then there's no external reason for him to change his behavior.

    With our DD7, whenever we take away a privilege, we either set a deadline for when she'll get it back (further violations reset the timer), or we tell her a behavior she can demonstrate to get it back. For example, if she can make it through a day/week without doing X, she gets it back.

    And on the flip side, rewards, which can be extra privileges, or something else she values. For example, our DD was recently pulled out of school for homeschooling, and was having daily meltdowns with anything challenging during school time because of all the damage the school had done. DW bought some good behavior certificates, which DD had always valued receiving in public school, and told her to earn one, she'd have to make it through a whole school day without yelling. It took her a few weeks to earn her first one, and now she's getting them fairly regularly.

    In either case, we make the goals measurable and achievable, and it seems to work for us. This differs from my own mom's approach, where the goals were unmeasurable and unachievable. My favorite was, "Until you start acting your age!" Wha...???

    The other problem area is one you've already acknowledged: inconsistency. If he feels like the punishment isn't going to stick, then again, he's got no external reason to change his behavior.

    It might help to discuss with your DH how the consequences he experiences for being inconsistent are more tiring than the alternative, because eventually, it means he has to get involved less, because the behavior improves. So if he's tired, that's all the more reason to back you up.

    It also might help if you let your DS know that Dad is no excuse for violating the terms of any punishments you've given him, by taking away something else, too.

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