Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy "best" is NOT a good goal-- explaining

I remember in schoolthat I was regularly instructed to answer as if I werertalking to someone who knew nothing about the material *while* other students were being told to explain it to the teacher, or as if to another student. Often all three suggestions were given to various students, butnI always got the ignorante version.

I was also in a corespondence-u class were I had two exams, eich worth 40% of my grade, the first was marked unfairly, in my opinion, surprisingly close to your daughter's 67% I was given many of teh same comments (it's a tad eerie, really).

I recieved 100% on the remainder of the course, I'm assuming because there was simply no possible way to mark me down. And got told by the programme head I should drop that half of my major. I learned very, very, very little about teh subject (thought I've been back over it for my own purposes)

NOT ALL HISTORY ia written like that... It was teh sci major I was asked to drop. Hist kinda likes me. They've even pointed students at me when they feel someone needs to explain "Academic rigour" to them kindly

This is maybe for teh bad homework thread, but I was once marked wrong on a chemistry question because, despite having correctly answered "hydrogen," I had used an archaic sentance structure (yes, I was bored) to fulfill the "answer in full sentances" requirement. If all science was written like that....



Shoot the teacher... Shoot the teacher... Shoot the teacher < reader must supply own orchestral accompanyment> dun dun dun-nuh.

I don't remember in school ever having a problem thinking of the person grading the test as being completely ignorant on the subject.

Snap.

... and see, now I feel compelled to apologize on behalf of chemistry.

I actually have a hypothesis.

Mr. Teacher has sent me at least two dozen written messages over the years-- and not ONE of them was devoid of spelling/grammar/usage errors, often multiple errors. He has a marked preference for ORAL communication over written.

DD has two high school friends, both brothers, that she has known for years and years. They love this guy. They think he's awesome. He loves them, too. Guess who they dread/avoid/fear? Riiiiiiight-- Ms. English Barracuda. The one that LOVES my DD's thinking and writing.

DD says that brothers tend to have fairly "simplistic" writing/written analysis skills, in her opinion. This would explain why they aren't too fond of the Barracuda, for sure.


My hypothesis is that this particular teacher might have a disorder of written expression of some sort. That would explain his preference for VERY particular syntax and his aversion to my DD's more nuanced (and frankly slightly more sophisticated grammar, etc) writing style. I think maybe it's a pain in the neck for him to follow it.

I shared this particular hypothesis with my DD. Can't hurt, given her nature-- after all, this should help her in terms of being COMPLIANT with what the guy wants, and it should keep her from being too terribly resentful over it in the bargain.

So sorry your dd is suffering over this. I was so perfectionistic about my grades, especially as an undergraduate that I lost all appreciation for truly learning the material. I liken it to a type of achievement anorexia. The more I excelled, the more praise and positive reinforcement I got...thus, the more I pushed harder to excel, the higher my own expectations, the more I excelled...

I think it was incredibly difficult for me to understand that sometimes teachers just don't "get you" - and may not like you or appreciate your perspective. And they will be impossible to please. I couldn't help but feel their disapproval was a judgement on me as a person, not numbers or words on a page. And I didn't have that delightful "screw you" teenage thing ( which is really an amazingly useful shield).

Hopefully this teacher grows a heart.

Thank you Evemomma-- achievement anorexia is the absolute BEST ever description for this. Just like anorexia, it isn't about the 'success' gained with the behavior, it's about the locus of control gained during it. The achievement is just a temporary relief from 'failure.'

This teacher basically just told my recovering anorexic to skip dessert because she's packing on a few pounds. I think that ANY good parent would blow a gasket at that.

We had worked SO hard toward that goal of "sometimes other people just don't 'get' you, it's not personal, keep your head down and just do your work, don't worry about it... be flexible... etc." This is a big part of the reason why she's in a public school and NOT homeschooled-- she is so personality sensitive, and because of her quirk of being about 80% Socratic in her learning style, it makes a HUGE difference to her learning as often as not.

I do think that the teacher is far from a heartless jerk. He just really DOES NOT KNOW my child.

While I most often have strong one sided input on most threads, I find myself torn on this one. I'm totally sympathetic of the problem you’re having with this teacher and it burns me up to see such grading habits. I also understand the perfectionism problem since my eldest DS went through the same thing, at the same time it’s important to realize that this teacher won’t be the last to use such practices and in fact it might get worse in college where professors are left completely to their own grading practices and to run their classroom completely as they see fit.

In a perfect world I’d wish all teachers to understand the challenges your child faces and adjust accordingly, however, this isn’t the perfect world. So my best advice is to, as much as possible, use this class as a tool to help your daughter understand and deal with such practices as she’s certain to see other teachers totally insensitive to her perfectionism trigger and teachers with much less knowledge of her (or even care to have much knowledge of her) when she reaches college. I guess I have to ask here, which are you more likely to have a strong influence and success in training / teaching, your daughter, or every teacher she’ll have now and in the future?

Please forgive me if I touch a nerve, it’s not my intention to ruffle feathers, again, I totally sympathize, I just don’t see the mass majority of your efforts in this to be a long term solution, yet, flipping on that, it sounds like this teacher and that teacher’s future students may benefit greatly from your input on the matter.

LOL-- yes, I'm (ahem) pretty familiar with how college faculty see things. On the other hand, most of them are, in my experience, quite concerned with VALID assessment practices. Most institutions have clear guidelines for faculty to follow-- and they do; the "fiefdom" model in higher ed is a little bit out of date at this point, and while there are certainly still a few dinosaurs out there, most of them operate with a more open pedagogical view now, particularly younger faculty. We really are working on our kid as well, and I agree-- I've been somewhat torn over this as well. It's one of the things that I loathe about this model, however-- that teachers pretty much NEVER see the students face to face, and cannot therefore use that kind of micro-feedback to make those tiny modifications that good educators ALWAYS do automatically in order to make learning more effective for students. It's a dance, and good educators all know it.

On my DD's side, she is still learning to be assertive enough to do self- advocacy. It's a work in progress. She is also learning (as I noted up-thread) to tolerate really non-optimal conditions in a learning environment, so we definitely are taking the same POV on this score. DD has to make adjustments-- when she CAN make them, that is. This is a grey area there. I'm not sure that: a) the teacher has the right to demand what he seems to be asking for, and b) that DD is flexible enough to deliver it (because frankly, I'm not-- and I've got a lot more experience writing for different audiences than either one of them).

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I've also had the idea that if plan A (that is, he's going to 'work' with my daughter to 'teach' her how to modify her writing style to accommodate his vision of things) falls through or proves unsuccessful...

{and just as a side note here, my DH and I have already got some concerns that he's tweaking her "voice" as a writer, and she's got a very good one that has been painstakingly developed under years of tutelage by Ms. Barracuda... we don't take that for granted, and we don't take tweaking that 'voice' lightly.}


well, then if Plan A falls through or is unsuccessful, then my suggestion is going to be that the two of them work through essay questions ORALLY. She knows the material, and can speak fairly eloquently about the issues involved. It's not right that she be failing that portion of things because she can't adopt a different voice as a writer. Not when her writing style has nothing truly 'wrong' with it for a lot of her other teachers.

I've always had a problem with schools wanting to teach my children any character traits, that's my job as a parent. The teacher teaches educational material, I'll do the raising of my kids, form their character, and help them set their goals, their values, and how important any aspect of their life is...thank you very much! Not directed at you the readers here of course, just thinking out loud directed at educators.

Exactly. That whiff of things REALLY got my hackles up in a hurry.