Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 239 guests, and 35 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    streble, DeliciousPizza, prominentdigitiz, parentologyco, Smartlady60
    11,413 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 4 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    I mean, wouldn't all of this parental energy be better spent in the direction of actually making the educational offerings BETTER rather than trying to guess the secret password to get into the private lounge where you HOPE that they're better??


    Ick. Just ick.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    what happens if you succeed in prepping your child into a gifted magnet (or whatever passes for the rarified differentiated instructional format locally)?? Won't it be pretty damaging for an otherwise bright, even above-average, youngster to try desperately to keep up with a pace and level of instruction that they simply aren't intended to cope with??
    Weelll.... yes, if that programme of education really does have a much faster pace and higher level of instruction than what the child would get otherwise. But, maybe it's a mistaken impression coming from the concentration of parents of children who need way more that we have here, but I don't have the impression that that's common over there. Provocative? suggestion: actually a bright, well-adjusted, well-motivated child with supportive parents would be just fine in almost (not quite!) any gifted magnet or rarified gifted programme in the US. The gifted programmes are just better education, full stop.

    Ahhhhhhhhh... I'm seeing something here.

    So the real issue is that maybe MOST of the kids in that gifted programming are kids like this who are bright but not gifted?

    That explains so much, and it's entirely consistent with what I've observed locally as well. The labels (including the R-word) are about parental needs, the education is what all mainstream students could (and maybe should) benefit from, and it really only doesn't work for kids that are HG or PG. Mostly.

    So this is about private school privilege without tuition. I see.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 423
    O
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    O
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 423
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    GGA.
    I hate to break it to her, but yes, Virginia, there is PG, and it looks very little like "groomed for the test." Some people really ARE that much 'smarter' than others. Not in some made-up way, but in an authentic, day-to-day way. Sorry that probably doesn't make her feel any better.

    Wow. eek

    Agreed with many of your points, especially this one. It's the same point that I tried to make concerning college admissions when others argued that college admissions should be based purely on ACT / SAT or some other entrance exam score. There is much more to predicting the probable success than a simple test score.....as many if not most college students and especially GT students can vouch to. If you put people who don't have the majority of tools required (not just the knowledge or intellect) to be successful, you're much less likely to produce the desired results.

    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 423
    O
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    O
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 423
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    So the real issue is that maybe MOST of the kids in that gifted programming are kids like this who are bright but not gifted?

    I think most public school systems serve the Gifted AND Talented in one program, if properly identified, that works just fine. Bright kids with exceptionally strong work ethic and strong study habits often can pace just fine with Gifted students. The ideal scenario is to get every child what they need to be challenged and learning constantly.

    Joined: Jul 2011
    Posts: 2,007
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jul 2011
    Posts: 2,007
    Originally Posted by Old Dad
    Agreed with many of your points, especially this one. It's the same point that I tried to make concerning college admissions when others argued that college admissions should be based purely on ACT / SAT or some other entrance exam score. There is much more to predicting the probable success than a simple test score.....as many if not most college students and especially GT students can vouch to. If you put people who don't have the majority of tools required (not just the knowledge or intellect) to be successful, you're much less likely to produce the desired results.

    Like I said, I'm still trying to recover from college and that was 15 years ago.

    I just had another stupid college nightmare last night.

    Annoying.

    Joined: Jul 2011
    Posts: 2,007
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jul 2011
    Posts: 2,007
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    So this is about private school privilege without tuition. I see.

    Yes.

    Private schools cost money!

    Plus, only a few people ever make it out of the indignities and hopelessness of the middle class and into the upper classes where life contains hope, meaning, and wonder.

    Last edited by JonLaw; 10/22/12 09:52 AM. Reason: Adding content to explain the need to social climb.
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    I mean, wouldn't all of this parental energy be better spent in the direction of actually making the educational offerings BETTER rather than trying to guess the secret password to get into the private lounge where you HOPE that they're better??
    Only if you can repurpose *all* the parental energy, which, as an individual parent, you can't. As an individual parent, you can do almost nothing to influence the quality of a school, especially in the time your child is actually there, *especially* if you also have a full-time job and a child with high needs, i.e., no time.

    I'm sensitive about this argument because in the UK it's often used to argue that it's wrong to send your child to a private school, or even that they should be made illegal: "if you put your energy into improving your local school everybody would benefit". It just doesn't work that way.


    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,639
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,639
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    That explains so much, and it's entirely consistent with what I've observed locally as well. The labels (including the R-word) are about parental needs, the education is what all mainstream students could (and maybe should) benefit from, and it really only doesn't work for kids that are HG or PG. Mostly.

    You are oversimplifying. If the two choices are gifted schools for 130+ IQs and regular schools geared to 95 IQ students, the 120 IQ kid may be "mainstream" but still better off in the gifted school, while the 90 IQ kid is also "mainstream" but is better off in the regular school. If there were ability grouping in regular schools, the 120 IQ kid might be better off in tracked classes in the regular school.

    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    So this is about private school privilege without tuition. I see.

    When I lived in NYC, I was one of the taxpayers, in a city with millions of tax-eaters. I would not have felt guilty about prepping my kids for the gifted program tests, so that I could actually get some benefit from my tax dollars.


    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    U
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    U
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    Quote
    Provocative? suggestion: actually a bright, well-adjusted, well-motivated child with supportive parents would be just fine in almost (not quite!) any gifted magnet or rarified gifted programme in the US. The gifted programmes are just better education, full stop.

    Gifted programs vary quite a lot, though. There's the one I was in when I was a child, which was something like once-weekly enrichment (maybe less). It was things like logic puzzles and cool science demonstrations. I had a French mentor for a while, which was fun. But I was not accelerated (though we were ability-grouped). Yes, any bright kid could have enjoyed and benefited mildly from this somewhat goofy program. Why not?

    Then there's DD's gifted magnet. I think MOST kids with IQs over 115 (?? I'm guessing) could hack it with effort and given no LDs, but for some it might be quite difficult, and they would need a lot of parental support. Some of the kids in DD's class need a lot of support now. Note that my hesitations have a lot to do with the writing expectations (high) and the workload (heavy). Reading level is also expected to be high, though--no instruction in learning to read has been given at all, as it is assumed all students are reading above grade level on entry (in grade 2). Math also proceeds double pace much of the time. Science and social studies are at least a grade and sometimes several grades ahead (one curriculum DD8 is using is clearly intended for middle schoolers).

    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 269
    L
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    L
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 269
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    c) if the number is as high as we think, it potentially dwarfs WHO our child is for far too many people (honestly, even her overt abilities do that sometimes)

    I've never personally met anyone who knew what to think of my own number. My SAT score, yes, but IQ numbers are not quite mainstream enough that anyone seems to know or care beyond that I passed some cutoff.

    It's actually useful to me, because as an adult I found Hoagies' and learned about LOG and it explains a lot about how convoluted my interactions with non-HG+ folks are.

    My overt abilities, on the other hand, turned me into a 'problem to be dealt with' to every educator I met until college. Gah. So glad to be past that. I have abilities, they don't have me.

    Page 4 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

    Moderated by  M-Moderator, Mark D. 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    New, and you'd think I'd have a clue...
    by astronomama - 03/24/24 06:01 AM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    Son 2e, wide discrepancy between CogAT-Terranova
    by astronomama - 03/23/24 07:21 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5