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    #141962 - 10/31/12 07:41 PM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    islandofapples Offline

    Registered: 07/20/11
    Posts: 332
    I only have a 23 month old, so take anything I say with a grain of salt...
    To me, it's a no brainer. I'd pull her out. Try again at a later date when she's more mature. If one of you really can't take time off from work, then I like the nanny idea. I realize you're a teacher and probably believe in the system, but I've planned to homeschool since birth and I've had some great experiences with all the homeschooled gifted kids I've met. They seem pretty happy and well-adjusted and when they're together, they just get along so well.

    #141965 - 10/31/12 08:40 PM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    MumOfThree Offline

    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1694
    Loc: Australia
    And was the psychologist not at all concerned that your daughter was running rings around her? And is clearly able to CHOOSE to behave appropriately if she thinks it's to her advantage? Things sound very bad, I am usually very much of the same mind as poster's like DeeDee saying "evaluate" and I would, privately and with someone very expert. But to me if at 4 she is that tuned in to her environment that she spotted she was being assessed, read the notes, and can just turn behavior on/off like that, well she sounds bored witless and having a wow of a time making fun for herself and hell for everyone else....

    I don't feel like I have a single useful thing to say really. But I really feel for you.

    #141975 - 11/01/12 06:33 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    epoh Offline

    Registered: 10/31/11
    Posts: 954
    Loc: N. Texas
    I have one suggestion for you, that might not be super helpful. Something that helped my son (besides, a Dx, meds and therapy!) was cold, hard cash rewards. hah! A couple of months ago I bought a magnetic dry erase chore chart from Target. We put down things like 'feed the dog', 'laundry', 'clean room', 'read' (school requires 15mins a night), and then good/bad day @ school. If his chart has all the appropriate stars during the week, and no bad days at school, he earns $3. The base allowance we did is $2/week, with a $1 bonus for straight 'greens' at school. -$0.25 per missing chore, and -$0.50 for a tantrum at school. (We wanted to make it where one or two bad days didn't ruin the whole week's allowance.) Since we started this bonus $1 business a few weeks back, DS has been doing fantastic! He's saving up for some LotR legos now!

    All that was really to say, you've gotta find your child's 'currency.' In my son's case it was actual currency, but for other kids it might be trips to the aquarium, or zoo, or a new book, or whatever. But I found the chart, up on the fridge, where everyone can see it every day really helped. Your child is clearly intelligent enough to see how her actions have consequences, so try focusing on positive reinforcement and get her to help! Ask her what sort of rewards she'd like to earn.

    #142844 - 11/14/12 03:56 PM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    DeeDee Offline

    Registered: 04/16/10
    Posts: 2498
    This is a public school? If so, you need the book From Emotions to Advocacy, which explains your child's rights and how to protect them.

    Originally Posted By: moomin
    Another meeting. This time I was told that my daughter has pinched another student and is being flagged as a safety risk. One more incident and she will be asked to leave her school until her, "issues have been addressed."

    If your state doesn't require preschool, I believe they can legally remove your child because of behavior such as this. If preschool is required, and it's a public school, they probably can't.

    Originally Posted By: moomin
    Meanwhile, the psychologist has informed us that there is a, "seven item evaluation" that she does to establish "autism-like symptoms" and that our daughter only has to possess one of the seven characteristics in order to receive a diagnosis.

    This is a school psychologist? There is no adequate seven-item test for autism, and school psychologists are not equipped to diagnose any disorder. It is permitted for them to make an educational evaluation, but not a diagnosis. (Did you consent to have her evaluated? I am wondering.)

    If your DD were my child, I would not ignore this, because often when schools see a red flag, there really is something going on; but I would take her to the premier expert in my region to rule autism in or out. I wouldn't trust the school psychologist to do this properly, and it seems like a slipshod operation they are running.

    Originally Posted By: moomin
    She indicated the belief that, untreated, she should not be mainstreamed until her behavior has been addressed, especially as now this pinching incident makes her a physical threat.

    That's inappropriate, and it's why you need the book I mentioned. The law protects children with disabilities; they are to be educated in the least restrictive environment in which they can function. If that means your DD needs an aide, they should be doing that for her rather then segregating her from other children. Again, I don't know what the law ensures because it's preschool, but this psychologist is out of line IMO.


    #142868 - 11/15/12 07:36 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    epoh Offline

    Registered: 10/31/11
    Posts: 954
    Loc: N. Texas
    Just curious, where is it the psychologist thinks she should be placed? Placing autistic children (not saying your child is!) with children with behavioral problems is a recipe for disaster, especially a high functioning kid. They SHOULD remain in a mainstream situation, just with additional supports.

    I am glad you didn't authorize this guy to do any eval. Private takes longer, but you get the chance to meet the person doing the evaluation and decide if you trust them or not before going forward.

    #142871 - 11/15/12 08:11 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    Mk13 Offline

    Registered: 07/20/12
    Posts: 761
    My younger son (2.8) sounds very much like your daughter. He is not in preschool yet, he is home with me and is very withdrawn from social situations. And for about 4 months got to being aggressive and wouldn't tolerate any children near him. He does get services from early intervention and will be getting evaluation for autism but even his therapists aren't quite convinced whether his issues are autism, high IQ or both. Either way, even with the aggression issues, the school itself is already recommending we put him IN the special ed public preschool that my older one just started. ... there are mainly kids with speech issues but some other as well. But the special ed department is strongly advocating putting kids like my son into the normal setting and if he needed a one on one aide, they would most likely provide that to get him the services he needs.

    now, to give you some hope, we have just recently in the last 2 weeks seen the aggression completely disappear! He is still disinterested in socializing but no longer cares about anyone entering his space. I believe it's due to serious dietary changes we made 4 weeks ago ... but it could also be caused by something else ... some chemical changes of sorts? ... it started in June and not it's all gone.

    so, my point is ... I would NOT let the school label my child and place in a setting where things could get possibly even worse! And I would also try to look at what may be causing all this?

    #144482 - 12/13/12 09:16 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    W'sMama Offline

    Registered: 04/09/12
    Posts: 192
    Loc: CO
    Originally Posted By: moomin

    Meanwhile my daughter is at home full time and loving it.

    Well this much at least is a good thing!

    Those "dangerous behaviors" would be funny if it all weren't so stupid.

    #144489 - 12/13/12 10:57 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    polarbear Offline

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3363
    Originally Posted By: moomin

    After meeting with the administrator we were informed that the school could not accommodate such a serious behavior risk in their classrooms. The teacher had noted two other dangerous behaviors during the course of the week and was proceeding with paperwork that would result in my daughter formally having services denied by the district.

    I'm a little confused by this - I understand that the school is telling you your dd can't attend the school anymore due to behavior, but I don't understand what this means: "paperwork that would result in my daughter formally having services denied by the district." Has your dd been going through an IEP eligibility process?

    Re. the behaviors you listed, I know that when they are listed by themselves with no other explanation and no list of previous behavioral issues, they sound silly and not like a reason to kick her out. But they are behaviors that have happened after previous behavioral issues - it's not just these two incidents that resulted in the action on the school's part. I also may sound like a total nutcase parent here, but there's a chance that the "handwashing" incident really *could* put another child at risk (for instance, if there is a child in the classroom with life-threatening food allergies). In any event, to be able to function in school a child does need to be able to take direction from a teacher and not just do whatever they feel like doing.

    Originally Posted By: moomin
    The administrator who chaired the meeting followed me out to my car and said, "I'm really sorry about this, but there's nothing we can do. I've observed your daughter, and I think that she'd honestly do much better with a different teacher

    This is most likely the case - another teacher might be able to handle your dd's behavior in a much better way, but there are a lot of miles in between handling and understanding what's driving behaviors, and that's where I hope you'll continue with seeking the outside evaluation by a neuropsychologist. You'll need that eval for three reasons - to support you as you advocate with the school district, to help you understand how to go about advocating with the school district, and most importantly, to understand what's up and how to help your dd.

    I am so sorry this is happening - your dd reminds me a lot of a friend of ours who is now in 4th grade. He's a high IQ kid who has had very similar behavior challenges. His mom has struggled quite a bit with school placement. FWIW, just providing him with peers in the classroom and academic challenge (he was placed in our district's HG program) didn't resolve the behavior challenges.

    Originally Posted By: moomin
    Meanwhile my daughter is at home full time and loving it.

    I'm glad she's happy for now - and I hope you're able to find a solution that will work for your family longterm -

    Best wishes,


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