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    #140937 - 10/21/12 05:23 AM A
    moomin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/20/12
    Posts: 178
    gone


    Edited by moomin (08/09/14 09:37 AM)
    Edit Reason: gone

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    #141083 - 10/22/12 10:27 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    Mk13 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/20/12
    Posts: 761
    Sounds quite a lot like my DS4.2! lol ... they are fun kids, aren't they? DS will be starting public district pre-school in a few days and I am already scared! He does have a PDD-NOS diagnosis. In terms of Asperger's ... if she really did have Asperger's or Asperger traits ... would she be placed in a different classroom or still the same one? Our public preschool is only for kids "at risk" so there is no "normal kids" class. It's kids with speech issues, developmental issues, Autisum spectrum, and other kids where they suspect future problems once they enter elementary school. Is there a reason why you would NOT want her to be evaluated for Asperger's or other disorders?

    Sorry, I don't really have any answers for you ... all I can say is I decided to just enjoy the fun quirky side of DS and not let the other things bother me too much.

    And public preschool teachers, at least in my opinion, should be able to handle this kind of behavior. If not, than it's not a place for them to be.

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    #141085 - 10/22/12 10:33 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    mnmom23 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/11/09
    Posts: 701
    It sounds, to me, that you have a very gifted girl who is getting nothing positive from her preschool experience. I do see that her behavior would be quite difficult to deal with in a group setting of kids who are on a more "normal" developmental track. And your daughter would certainly benefit from learning more socially appropriate ways to deal with her misfit. BUT, I don't think that they problem is really your daughter. The problem is that she's four and in a bad situation that she can't possibly be expected to adjust to on her own.

    My first thought would be that she doesn't need to be in a group learning situation now or in the near future. Since keeping her home for you or your wife to homeschool isn't an option, I like mon's suggestion of finding a nanny or someone (a homeschooled hs student, perhaps, or a recent college grad) who could be at home with her and work and play one-on-one with her for the time being. Another option would be to have an aid to go to school with her and make sure her reactions are more appropriate in the group setting, but the preschool situation may be such a misfit that this wouldn't work either. If you did have someone work with her one-on-one in a more homeschool-like situation, then they could approach group classes (e.g., Kindermusik, gymnastics, dance, science exploration classes) on a more short-term basis.

    I really do feel for you. You have an amazing little girl and it can be so hard to see those gifts helping to make it a hard trek, especially so early in the educational journey.
    _________________________
    She thought she could, so she did.

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    #141090 - 10/22/12 10:54 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: master of none]
    polarbear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3363
    Originally Posted By: master of none
    She certainly is quite gifted and intense gifted kids can have trouble in preschool. Often it's a matter of finding the right situation.

    Have you thought about a nanny rather than preschool to allow her to follow her own path for this last year before she enters compulsory school?

    I think you really need to get to know your daughter and watch her social interactions with peers of all ages and if things are a bit off, have her evaluated by a specialist in both giftedness and child behavior. It sounds like her behavior is preventing her from succeeding in school and must be addressed so she can be happy and know how to deal with school. It also sounds like you don't totally trust the school system psychologist to assess her so you may want to go private with that. But, it does sound like she needs some sort of intervention.



    I agree with MON on this, particularly the suggestion for seeking input from a specialist in child behavior. I especially think it's important that, whether or not you think the suggestion of Asperger's is completely ridiculous, that you have a specialist who is looking in from outside with no bias evaluate what is going on. The teachers are really in no position to guess at a diagnosis, but they are also (usually) experienced professionals who see a wide # of children and are most likely recognizing that *something* is going on that your dd could use help with. I think it's really easy for us as parents of gifted children to assume that behavior differences are due to high IQ and as a result of that miss out on help our children really do need. Please know I know this is really tough - I'm the parent of a 2e kiddo and that's where my perspective is coming from.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    #141101 - 10/22/12 12:38 PM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3428
    Wait, but...is she a problem for you at home, or no? You say this:

    Quote:
    When left to her own devices, she is contrary, difficult, disrespectful to adults (with the exception of family), frequently seemingly "out of control" of her body, her voice, and mood (especially when overstimulated... like at swim class).


    That sounds very difficult.

    but you also say she is "generally terrific" outside of school. So are the issues limited to school, or no? That would greatly influence my reply.

    FWIW, though, my daughter was very very difficult in preschool, and was, in fact, somewhat infamous there. I thought we would have major behavioral problems in school. We have not. Although she has had a few minor clashes and had maybe 3 major meltdowns in K, in general, she's been able to rein it in and has been very well-behaved.

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    #141103 - 10/22/12 12:53 PM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    polarbear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3363
    Thanks for the additional background info moomin, that makes a difference in what I have to add in my response and I hope you weren't offended by anything I said in my response, not being aware of your background.

    That said, I still think it's a good idea to seek out a private evaluation. I can understand the difficulty with going through the school and the concerns you have. A private evaluation comes with no hidden agenda, and you will have the opportunity to ask more detailed questions as well as get referrals (if needed) to private providers and/or recommendations for school.

    My gut feeling is that if your dd is struggling in more than one setting (swimming lessons as well as what I think you have listed as more than one preschool setting) it's a good idea to have someone who is a professional look at what's up - no matter how incredibly well she might be doing at home and when she's focused. I have found with my own children that it's easy to compensate at home without realizing it, and home is also a very familiar place for our kids, so it can be a place where a child who is stressed out in the outside world can feel relaxed and happy and not appear to be struggling - yet that anxiety or whatever is there is still a part of what's there in your child, and jmo, but I'd want to know what's going on and find some help for my child to learn to navigate those other situations.

    It might all be simply nothing more than gifted quirks, but I'd want someone other than just me evaluating and reassuring me that is all that it is.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    #141405 - 10/25/12 08:11 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    DeeDee Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/16/10
    Posts: 2498
    Originally Posted By: moomin

    We acknowledge that there is an incentive for her to find a diagnosis that draws some sort of funding for additional classroom help (generally that would be AD or ASD in our district), and that makes us uneasy...


    Any pressure from below (i.e. the teacher wants help) is often countered by pressure from above (the district's incentive to save money by not identifying children).

    It is a misconception that the federal government provides adequate funding for services for children with disabilities; the IDEA mandate has never been fully funded, leaving districts to pay their own bills. This can be a powerful disincentive for the school psychologist to identify problems; in our (wealthy) district it is still routine to see children under-identified in schools. Note: school psychologists cannot provide medical diagnosis of disability, only an educational evaluation.

    Originally Posted By: moomin
    but we increasingly feel that some of the problems that our daughter is having and actively being created by the teacher in order to force an evaluation (i.e. not structuring our daughter's behavior until she is fully invested in an inappropriate activity, then coming down like a ton of bricks).


    It is sometimes the case that parents are inadvertently offering more support than they realize, and when similar support is not offered at school, the child does worse at school than at home. This sometimes means that there is a real problem to be addressed—the disparity can come from the fact that the parents are helping the child function in ways that the teacher does not expect do do because most children of that age don't require that kind of support.

    That is, how you worded your comment ("structuring her behavior") is a flag for me that you are working very hard to keep your child on track, perhaps harder than the parents of her peers are working. To me, this says evaluate.

    I would recommend an outside evaluation (complete) with the neuropsych, in parallel with the school's evaluation. The school will be looking for educational implications only, in a fairly restricted way, and they may lack the expertise to catch some things that need addressing. You want to know precisely what's going on, both strengths and weaknesses.

    DeeDee


    Edited by DeeDee (10/25/12 08:14 AM)
    Edit Reason: word choice

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    #141420 - 10/25/12 08:54 AM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: DeeDee]
    epoh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/31/11
    Posts: 954
    Loc: N. Texas
    Originally Posted By: DeeDee
    Originally Posted By: moomin

    [quote=moomin] but we increasingly feel that some of the problems that our daughter is having and actively being created by the teacher in order to force an evaluation (i.e. not structuring our daughter's behavior until she is fully invested in an inappropriate activity, then coming down like a ton of bricks).


    It is sometimes the case that parents are inadvertently offering more support than they realize, and when similar support is not offered at school, the child does worse at school than at home. This sometimes means that there is a real problem to be addressed—the disparity can come from the fact that the parents are helping the child function in ways that the teacher does not expect do do because most children of that age don't require that kind of support.

    That is, how you worded your comment ("structuring her behavior") is a flag for me that you are working very hard to keep your child on track, perhaps harder than the parents of her peers are working. To me, this says evaluate.
    DeeDee


    This is very much the issue we had. DS had obvious issues we saw at home, but they were NOTHING like what was going on at school. A lot of it was because we put so much effort into how things happened at home to prevent issues...
    _________________________
    ~amy

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    #141937 - 10/31/12 12:34 PM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    Zen Scanner Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/13/12
    Posts: 1478
    Loc: NC
    Originally Posted By: moomin
    She suggested that the only way to find out was to do a full evaluation so that, "We can find her a label."


    I'm wondering if playing with fairy dust is perhaps better than snorting it?

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    #141950 - 10/31/12 02:23 PM Re: Advocating with local public preschool... [Re: moomin]
    Mk13 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/20/12
    Posts: 761
    as a mom of highly sensitive children who have serious sensory issues, I would LOVE if they wanted to play with sand! I don't really see how playing with sand is a concern??? As far as I know any OT would be jumping for joy over this!

    And "one on one" is SO MUCH BETTER than parallel play!

    I think the school psychologist needs to see a psychologist!

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