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    Joined: Feb 2010
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    This essay supports Hacker's view that algebra is not necessary for most people (except to obtain necessary educational credentials).

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/10/does_high_schoo.html
    Does High School Algebra Pass a Cost-Benefit Test?
    Bryan Caplan
    OCTOBER 17, 2012

    "How much do students learn in school?" The question is harder than it seems. You get one answer if you measure their knowledge at the end of the school year or right before graduation. You'll probably get a very different answer, however, if you measure their knowledge a year, five years, or twenty years after graduation.

    The latter measure is clearly more important. What good is "knowledge" that melts in your mouth like cotton candy? As you'd expect, however, we rarely measure long-term learning. Instead, we look for our keys under the streetlight because it's brighter there. Our obsession with student achievement ends with graduation.

    Fortunately, there are a few noble exceptions. My favorite: Bahrick and Hall's "Lifetime Maintenance of High School Mathematics Content" (Journal of Experimental Psychology, 1991). The authors assembled a large sample of current students and adult (ages 19-84). They collected detailed information on their mathematics coursework, IQ, and other variables. And they reached some remarkable discoveries.

    Here's how knowledge of algebra decays over a lifetime. The lines (top to bottom) show the fitted scores for (1) people who studied more than calculus, (2) people who studied calculus, (3) people who didn't study calculus but took another algebra course, and (4) people who didn't study calculus and only took one algebra course.

    If you're a cheerleader for education, you'll fix your gaze on the top two lines. People who go beyond calculus don't just master algebra; they know algebra almost perfectly for the rest of their lives. People who stop with calculus do almost as well, their average score slowly declining from 90% to 75% over the course of fifty years. Wow!

    If you're someone like me, however, you'll fix your gaze on the bottom two lines. After all, most students never take calculus. What benefit does this vast majority get out of higher mathematics? Not only is their proficiency low, but it decays fairly rapidly. Ten years roughly halves their edge over pre-algebra controls.

    Non-economists will probably interpret this as an argument for making everyone take calculus. But what about the cost? Does it really make sense to torture everyone with four years of advanced mathematics to ensure that they don't forget their first year?

    Before you answer, consider one more finding from the paper. Bahrick and Hall constructed a measure of how much subjects "rehearsed" - i.e., used - algebra in their daily lives:

    The vast majority of subjects rarely use algebra no matter how proficient they are. Look at the fractions with rehearsal scores of 0 or 1: 89% for people who studied less than calculus, 91% for people who studied calculus, and 70% for people who studied more than calculus. If the students who already take calculus don't use it in real life, why on earth should we push weaker students to match their achievement?

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    Not that I took statistics (ha ha), but in looking at that article I notice that in their little study, the number of people who went past calculus is very small--makes me feel that the percentages are somewhat suspect.

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    Seems like there is an obvious confounding factor in this study: those who take calculus or beyond are most likely more math prone to begin with...setting up the argument -they would be the group most likely to remember/utilize advanced algebra even if they took home ec instead of calculus.

    Personally, I see the lack of training in proper slip-stitching and flaky pie crust-making as it's own tragedy.

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    It seems self-evident that students who go to calculus or beyond would have significantly greater retention of algebra. In the process of performing advanced math, they're constantly referencing, reinforcing, and applying those algebraic principles. Whether they go on to use algebra "daily" or not, those neural pathways are well traveled.

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    I'm still unconvinced by the argument, "Students shouldn't have to take algebra because they won't use it in daily life." If we should only study what we'll use in daily life, why do we teach science? Why do our kids bother reading history books or classic novels? It's not like they're going to be debating the relative merits of Charlotte Bronte's writing style at the bank or in the lab or wherever.

    Maybe they take these classes because of the connections they create in the mind and because knowing this stuff is just part of creating an educated population.

    It's clear that the real problem here is that too many students are failing algebra. If they weren't, no one would be wringing their hands and asking if maybe we should cut it out of the curriculum. IMO, this is just a continuation of an established pattern in our schools: it's too hard, so excise it from the curriculum!

    Given that students all over the world pass basic algebra, I wonder if our national problem is our dreadful math curricula. We've been discussing this idea recently on the Certainty among Educators thread. Perhaps our students' mathematical foundation is too poor to support algebra. It wouldn't surprise me a bit.

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    Originally Posted by Dude
    It seems self-evident that students who go to calculus or beyond would have significantly greater retention of algebra. In the process of performing advanced math, they're constantly referencing, reinforcing, and applying those algebraic principles. Whether they go on to use algebra "daily" or not, those neural pathways are well traveled.

    YES. Exactly. My retention of trigonometry is better than 99% of the population, as well, I'd guess. Why? Because I spent so many years doing statistics, advanced geometry, and calculus.

    Besides, as MoN notes, how on earth are they defining "algebra"?? Because I can't imagine getting through a week without using a fair bit of what my daughter learned in Algebra I three years ago. I'm not talking about being a professional scientist-- I'm talking about figuring out consumer math challenges, budgeting, etc.

    COLLEGE algebra? Well, sure-- I go longer in between using that stuff. But that is a straw man here, because this is about a push to remove Algebra I from Common Core graduation requirements. I vehemently disagree that such a thing is a good idea on any level.

    If I student can't pass Algebra I (or, for that matter, four years of English composition), then perhaps that student needs a "modified diploma" instead. That's an option already for students with IEP's. I don't see a problem that needs fixing, here. confused


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    I wonder if the type of person who studies math beyond the calculus level would be able to answer algebra problems even if they had been cut off from schooling after arithmetic. You need not follow a particular approach in order to solve algebra problems, if you have an intuition for numbers.

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    Originally Posted by DAD22
    I wonder if the type of person who studies math beyond the calculus level would be able to answer algebra problems even if they had been cut off from schooling after arithmetic. You need not follow a particular approach in order to solve algebra problems, if you have an intuition for numbers.


    My ds6 intuitively starting doing very basic algebraic equations around 4 years old. We never once discussed with him any of this...he just started doing it on his own. In fact, his favorite thing to do in math is to find multiple avenues to a solution. That was actually one of inklings that he was going to be a "mathy" kid.

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    Yes. Mathy kids are going to be fine this way without actual instruction.

    I just think it is horrifying to conclude that ONLY mathy kids ought to be expected to learn it. I'm not a particularly mathy person... and Algebra I? Just not that hard-- but anyone who isn't mathy probably needs some instruction to learn it.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    How much of Algebra I is regularly usable...?

    Found this list of topics taught in Algebra I:
    •Representing numbers with variables
    •Addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division of real numbers
    •Probability and odds
    •Rates, ratios, and percents
    •Exponents and powers
    •Order of operations
    •Functions
    •The distributive property
    •Linear equations
    •Formulas and functions
    •Quadratic equations and functions
    •Polynomials and factoring
    •Rational equations and functions
    •Pythagorean Theorem

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