Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Updated again: no CAPD

ultramarina - my obviously 2E daughter (not the much more normal HG one mentioned above that has ADD) has a formal DX of CAPD, but only just. She scored 98% on most of the test. And 2% on two sections (the requirement to get a DX). I think even with the two scores at 2% they only diagnosed after I pointed out that she had a 4SD spread and that 2SDs was considered a problem for normal kids. IQ wise she's around the 98th, on a good day, on some subtests. All top or bottom, not much in between, but not an outlier at either end is how this one tests on every measure she's ever had applied to her. So her auditory performance matches her IQ performance, if that makes sense. If she was HG and we tried to get her assessed for CAPD I think we'd have failed because she barely scraped though to a diagnosis as it was and arguable if she's gifted at all, she's definitely got a problem but she's also able to compensate quite well, especially in a test environment. Not suggesting your DD has CAPD. Just suggesting that it's a bugger of a thing to test a gifted child for that mysterious "something" when the measure of a problem is made against normally developing kids.

Oh and the first time we had miss 2E's hearing tested they told us she had spectacular hearing and focus beyond her years and laughed us out of their office. No-one suggested that if she had such perfect hearing, but parents and teachers thought she might be deaf, then we should look at CAPD. Or ADD. Or something.

Hi Ultra,

So where do you go from here? Neuropsych?

I resonate with the previous posts (Mum3, seablue); my older DS (who has AS, not ADHD) can be a whiz at attending in testing environments. He turns it on because he's being assessed. Yet in a classroom, or at home while getting dressed, perhaps not so much.

My feeling is to let the CAPD testers test for CAPD, and turn to a different expert for the assessment for AS, ADHD, etc.

DeeDee

I guess my question is, if these kids can pay razor-sharp attention when being assessed in these environments, then how are we supposed to assess them for ADHD? Furthermore, if they can pay attention so well while being assessed, how serious can the ADHD actually be? Obviously, SOME kids (...many kids) are NOT able to focus while being assessed for ADHD.

My sense is that we have a bad teacher fit this year. It's somewhat surprising that it's taken this long for this to occur. DD is continuing to get good grades anyway, though not as consistent or high as in the past (no big deal; she was previously an A+ student and now she is more of an A- student). I am going to ask to have the school guidance counselor/social worker do a silent observation of her in class. I hear good things about her and I would like another adult's POV.

You can:
--arrange to have her observed at school by the testing professional
--use standardized questionnaires with a variety of adults who come into contact with her (i.e. not just the least-favorite teacher who complains) in a variety of different contexts
--use an expert professional who is used to diagnostic work with 2E kids


My DS doesn't have ADHD but has attention issues from his autism. His capacity for paying attention varies hugely depending on his stress level, his interest in the subject matter, his preoccupation with other things, and his belief that paying attention is worth his while in any given situation (rewards available or not, likely or improbable).

It has been a very serious issue for him, at school and at home, even though it appears intermittent.

DeeDee

This sounds far more like DD than what I read about ADHD.

I think having her observed would probably be essential if we continue with more diagnosis (we may need to give the checkbook a rest for a while).

Just remember, if you get on waiting list for the right professional now, it may still be 6-9 months before you have the actual evaluation. Or not-- it just depends.

DeeDee

Not sure, if this was covered already, but could it be that your DD is gifted? (j/k)

I'm curious if your DD measures way out there on her spatial reasoning (over and above other sub-tests?) Because I have most of the symptoms you've listed and that's the biggest hump on any test I've done. And I know my brain runs very system thinking/spatial. Combined with sensitivity here's how it plays out for me:

There is just too much information when you are hyper-sensitve and over-attenuate. Maybe the baseline stimulation is low, but part of the giftedness is the ability to self-regulate that mechanism and when interested it cranks up. It needs to regulate because "always on" is exhausting. If people are talking about meaningless stuff, then the brain is going to work on something else useful or take a breather. If someone is talking and I am interested, I am 100% paying attention and if stuff interferes that can fluster a bit.

If I'm working on something full on, you have to tap me or call my name a few times (and likely scare the pooh bear outta me.)

Oh yeah, you mentioned the phone, I have an awful time on the phone. There is no spatial context, I seem to need to have people in a place position to make sense. Speaker phone works ok (try that.)

It's possible there is some diagnosis that goes along with this combination, but I haven't felt a need to look for one.

Ha! Yes, it is indeed possible!

Unfortunately, we only have one very short IQ test on her (the RIAS) which really doesn't give very much info and didn't break it down in terms of spatial stuff or anything like that. However, she seems to be an abstract reasoning sort of kid more than anything, I'd say? Very philosophical. She has strong skills in math and reading both. She's also artistic and seems to have acting talent. But I wouldn't say she's super spatial, no. Like, she's not a major puzzle kid or incredibly into building (although she is GOOD at all those things...very well rounded).

Ultramarina - the hyperactive/impulsive ADHD kids are likely to stick out like a sore thumb even 1:1, even if they are still pretty well self-contained/behaved for THEM the tester is STILL likely to see enough to imagine what that kid must be like outside. But the primarily inattentive kids, I would add especially girls, are much harder to pick in a room without distractions, engaged by a person they have good rapport with doing something they find at least moderately engaging.

I don't know about your kids but my kids find IQ tests pretty fun, especially with an engaging tester. My more gifted child even more so, she has come out positively glowing from both her IQ tests.

Some kids with ADHD have patterns in their subtests that show it, not all do. Some kids it really does come down to history taking and observation in situ. I heard an expert talk on ADHD last year who talked about making a mistake early in his career with a girl who tested and interacted beautifully in his rooms, so he declared her to be perfectly fine despite parental concern. The parents/school begged him to come see her at school (a new idea for him back then). He went, and as he was walking down the hall talking to the principle they heard a commotion. When they got to the girl's class she was standing on her desk dancing and flinging her clothes around. This was quite a lightbulb moment for him in terms of believing the history of the parents and teachers that see the kid every day.... I am guessing your daughter is not dancing on tabletops in the classroom, but you get the idea. For some kids it won't be obvious under ideal circumstances, particularly if they are gifted and/or a girl and are purely inattentive not hyperactive or impulsive.