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    Joined: Dec 2010
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    katebee Offline OP
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    Hi there,

    I think this may be long - sorry!

    After some mental health problems my daughter was diagnosed with anxiety, and had also developed selective mutism. After an IQ test it was determined that her problems were a result of incorrect academic placement. Her score was all over the place ranging from <144 in one area (inc. ceiling), to down to the 90th in another, with a GAI of 138. She is not 2E, although I am querying ADD at the moment. However, after a year or so of helping us our ed consultant has since determined that her anxiety probably meant her testing was not terribly reflective of her abilities and I have no real idea of her level of giftedness. We grade skipped, with further subject acceleration; then moved to montessori; and finally home schooled. She started to improve greatly and has now started back at school p/t, but is there four years early in a gifted program - should be grade 4 but is in a grade 8 G&T class. I'm just struggling with what seems like the enormity of the acceleration, although dd is happy, and loves school. She's also achieving well and the school has made the suggestion that she moves to spend more hours there. I'm wobbling and am just after help or advice from anyone, please.

    We're also playing back track on learning social skills (her first school suggested she had aspergers, but she doesn't), and are still dealing with a lot of rudeness which is defensiveness masked as arrogance. She can be quite rude and socially awkward which is draining as I'm trying to work this out through role play etc.

    I'm just reaching out in the hope that someone can help! I'd be so grateful for any input anyone can provide?

    Thanks smile


    'I want, by understanding myself, to understand others.'
    K Mansfield
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    Welcome! How old is your daughter? That radical acceleration sounds scary. Honestly, sometimes I think we should do that with my son (age 11) but it's too much to contemplate with his immaturity and social skills. He's grade skipped, too, in 7th grade, doing 9th grade Algebra and playing in the 8th grade band. He's in all gifted classes but I'm not sure that's enough. We have the rudeness and defensiveness as well, although only at home.

    Has she been evaluated for Aspergers or have you ruled it out on your own?


    What I am is good enough, if I would only be it openly. ~Carl Rogers
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    katebee Offline OP
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    Hi Petunia, thanks for replying smile. She's been evaluated for aspergers. We're not in the US so not sure of grade equivalencies but my daughter is 10. She should be in year 4 and is doing year 9 math; for science she's hugely asynchronous but teaches herself year 11 and 12 stuff. I was trying to find a tutor for her but we live in a small place and the G&T co-ordinator at the local high school offered her the place after hearing about her from someone else. It was a hard decision but she said she fits there better than anywhere else. She needed to get into a lab and also my science wasn't good enough to check her work for accuracy so I was continually playing catch up.She has this drive and no off switch. It's not even just in one area she just teaches herself about everything. I'm exhausted... And her intense questioning can look rude in public frown


    'I want, by understanding myself, to understand others.'
    K Mansfield
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    I just came back from a weekend at a friend's beach house. A friend who made a lot of money young, retired at 40. But is very lonely. Her social skills are horrendous, and you can say she is rude due to defensiveness, I have known her 25 years. My DH couldn't stand her because of her attitude and arrogance. I know she has a good heart and even I have time horizon of how much time I can spend with her.

    Whatever the reason for poor social skills, it can be a very lonely life, no matter what other success the person has.

    I struggle with how much acceleration works for DD and how I go about her schooling. But I lower the boom on bad behavior. I also talk to her about her choice of friends and situations that arise. "this person that you think is boring, is never rude, always nice" and make her think about it.

    Just reading about rudeness and arrogance, it made me think of my friend, who had one short marriage based on her money and struggles for social connections.

    Ren

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    Hi Katebee,
    Given a scientific bent, she could take on a study of personal social outcomes. If A happens and I do B what happens. What if I do C instead? And of course in social scenarios, there are multiple outcomes and typical behaviors will often favor only one outcome.

    She may be able to build a robust skillset from that and at the least tune up her awareness.

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    Originally Posted by Zen Scanner
    Hi Katebee,
    Given a scientific bent, she could take on a study of personal social outcomes. If A happens and I do B what happens. What if I do C instead? And of course in social scenarios, there are multiple outcomes and typical behaviors will often favor only one outcome.

    She may be able to build a robust skillset from that and at the least tune up her awareness.

    I've manually done social mapping like this before, but my goal was punishment, using rudimentary behavioral profiles to deform the social fabric through specific lies provided to the appropriate people.

    I was specifically trying to achieve a bad outcome for someone as a form of punishment (this was when I was in high school), so it can be used in reverse.

    And yes, I felt guilty so I never did it again.

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    You can't parent a child this far out from the mean with advice/parenting tools intended for the center of the distribution.

    It simply doesn't work.


    BTDT. We simply parent the child that we have. Most of the time, this means flying by the seat of our pants, wing-and-a-prayer... well, all those other cliches.

    She is miserable when in an inappropriate educational environment, and at some point that begins to spill into every other aspect of her life as well. That road probably leads ultimately to inpatient care for either affective disorder or an eating disorder-- we were well on our way two years ago with our then-11yo DD.

    While other people may question our sanity with a 4yr acceleration... and ask "well what about {future}??" as if we haven't really thought things through...

    the bottom line is that we HAVE thought things through, and while that thought has lurked and taunted us, as well; we are really just trying to avoid the major pitfalls on both sides of our path RIGHT NOW. Nobody else can really understand what it is like to have school destroy your child's emotional/mental health unless they've been through it themselves.

    Cultivate compassion and social awareness, certainly. But don't waste energy thinking too hard about how "odd" this much acceleration is. If you do that, you'll freak yourself out, and it seems clear from your interactions with others who know your child-- and from your child's transformation-- that it's the right thing at least on some level.

    Evaluate options based on what offers the least worst outcomes/environments. There is no "perfect" for children like yours and mine. There is only 'hopefully good enough.' Ironically, parenting my perfectionist is doing a real number on my OWN perfectionism. wink

    Trust your gut and parent your child with love (and sometimes-- tough love, if that's what your gut is telling you). That's my advice.



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Not to hijack this post, but how do you know when to go for radical acceleration? I'm so frustrated and confused I don't know what I'm doing (as I'm sure you know if you've read any of my other posts).


    What I am is good enough, if I would only be it openly. ~Carl Rogers
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    katebee Offline OP
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    Thanks for the input everyone smile.

    Howler, your comments speak straight to my heart. I should probably clarify that she's not arrogant exactly; it's more the inability to stop asking questions, interrupt with information which she feels is relevant etc. - so an inability to censor what she says and when to say it. Her sense of humour is also very dry which doesn't help! So, I'm looking in depth at ADD just in case. However, she was so out of sync for so many years that she made a mask and wore it so tightly for school in order to fit in that now she's taken it off she's groping in the dark trying to find out who she is. She was well liked by other kids, had copious awards at school - for personal qualities such as empathy and kindness to others etc., her behaviour was great, she was in every respect a star student, but she was desperately lonely and unhappy and by age 7 or 8 she just gave up 'playing the game' to fit in; she was exhausted. Then the panic attacks started, and eventually a suicide attempt just after her 8th birthday. I just thought she was bright, not 'gifted' and didn't peg the psychological issues as school based; I thought she had a pathology. It has since transpired that I was misdiagnosed with bipolar as a young adult so it's a messy journey for me too, unravelling what happened when I was a kid. I spoke with a friend tonight and she said that dd isn't rude unless she's in pursuit of knowledge, or more accurately when she is trying to connect with someone so tries too hard to get 'stuff' out, and then sometimes things go a bit pear shaped. She also said a loneliness and need to connect radiates from her - that desperate need to find someone like her. I think I am also so paranoid of her developing a 'better than' attitude that I'm on high alert for any hint of arrogance and make mountains out of mole hills sometimes. We do lots of role play and 'what if' scenarios to look at social situations, which definitely helps. I spoke to her tonight and she said she just wanted to have a 'good heart' and not be rude. So we've devised a code of a nose touch when she speaks out of turn. I'm beginning to wonder if my obsession with having a 'good' kid, one who is empathetic and kind etc., is further fuelling her anxiety. I just worry with all the 'you are so smart' comments (from others, not us, we focus on effort and resilience)that her head will swell and I want to stop that from potentially happening too. My friend also said that I need to be careful not to put my baggage onto my daughter - and I trust and respect this person greatly.

    DD is improving, greatly. She will talk to new people now, order for herself in coffee shops etc. A couple of years ago someone asked me if she was 'retarded' because she just simply had no energy left to read social situations and react in the the way she thought people would want her to, so she just stopped talking. Our situation has improved so very much, but that comes at the cost of making some hard decisions that may or may not be right, but it's the best I can do with the tools I have. I'm just at the stage where I'm exhausted from everything that has gone on over the last two years and need propping up for a while. I also have a 2E son who has dyslexia, dysgraphia, sensory issues and CAPD so it's pretty full on.

    I so needed to hear some of the things you said, howler. It's the same advice I give to others (I started a group for gifted kids so they could find their tribe). But there's noone else in the group whose child has had such a radical acceleration. It's a lonely journey - and one that makes you doubt every decision you make, and also think that maybe your kid isn't so smart after all and is coasting by for now but will flunk out later...Projecting imposter syndrome onto her maybe? Learning to trust your gut is hard, but it's all you have to go on. Thanks for listening smile.


    'I want, by understanding myself, to understand others.'
    K Mansfield
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    katebee Offline OP
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    Tbh Petunia, we hit the bottom of the barrel and had tried a skip, which was really a double skip as it was a split class and she went in the lower year working the upper year curriculum, p/t home schooling (on psych advice) - everything, before I realised I was spending more time clearing up the mess of the day than it would to home school f/t - it would be 3am and she would still be crying alone in her room etc. so I withdrew her. The radical acceleration was offered on a plate a few months later. I'd never have pursued it, but I sought advice on whether or not to accept it and was informed it would be a good choice, although she would still probably need extension at home on top. We were offered maths and science, but only took science. Then she did really well in her end of term exams and was offered maths (again) and english too. I asked dd what she thought and she said she'd like to try English as well. She has immense maths anxiety because it's her weakest subject and she doesn't think she's very good at it so isn't ready for that. I suppose the short answer is I couldn't keep up with the science at home and was desperate for any help I could get... I was out of options and it was the only way I could see to move forward. I'm not sure if this helps at all though!


    'I want, by understanding myself, to understand others.'
    K Mansfield
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