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OMG. I can't even imagine that horrible culture! I grew up on swim teams and two of my three kids are swimmers and we've been so lucky never to have experienced it. I would bring it to the coach's attention again and ask that the coaches have a team meeting outlining the rules of behavior and consequences for poor behavior. I don't see how you can encourage your dd to be mean back, but I would certainly encourage her to hold her ground when she's right. Then, it's kind of up to your dd to determine how much she can take if the situation doesn't improve.

I know it is an effort to find a team with the right culture. We turned down one team that seemed too cut-throat. If I were you I would still be calling around to the different teams to see where you can find an opening, and asking if not now, when might they have room? I would also ask for recommends from the other coaches-- maybe they know a team that has an opening.

So sorry your dd is going through this. It's impressive she wants to put up with it in order to swim.

I've coached swimming, so I'll chime in a little here.

Can your daughter swim in a different lane? Is there another lane of kids practicing on the same intervals? Even if the kids in the next lane over are a little slower, if they're swimming on the same time intervals and they're fast enough that she would be then on the feet of the LAST kid, she could lead that lane at her own pace, not have to deal with ridiculousness, and still be doing the same practice.

The parent culture in swimming can be like that. I mean, who knows what version of things the kids told their parents, but even under the best of circumstances there can be some very... um... competitive types who seem to vest their worth as a parent in their kid being OMG THE BEST NUMERO UNO. ESPECIALLY if their kid has been the undisputed "best" swimmer (or among them), the parent risks losing status (yes, seriously).

OK, I won't chime in as much as I intended to... late for work!

That sounds awful. I'm completely naive to competitive swimming - but that is worse than what I have heard from my clients who are in select teams for soccer, basketball or baseball.

I'm generally a fan of helping kids learn to stand up tor themselves (in typical "picking on" situations) - but this sounds so much more extreme. The team sounds incredibly toxic. I would address with the coaches and pull my child if it did not get rapidly better. A coach is responsible (or needs to consequence) the conduct of his/her team. If the coach can't handle the parents - than the kids won't ever change. Ugh...I'm so sorry for you and your dd. They gives my stomach knots just considering if my kids were facing this.

A good group mix? Sorry, but that's nuts. Lanes are divided by speed so that each swimmer is appropriately challenged. Just like the way we insist on differentiation academically. My 10 yo swims in the 12 yo lane. My 6 yo is literally the slowest on the team and swims last in the slow lane so she doesn't hold anyone up. They're both challenged, and no one else is upset.

I'd give up on this team and try again when you can get on another team. Sounds like the coaches don't know what they're doing socially or athletically.

Yeah, this team sounds like a hot, hot mess. Swimming's a pretty easy-to-differentiate sport if you have everyone in speed/endurance-based lanes within ability groups. Everyone does the same thing and works on the same skills (since if you're in an ability group the assumption is you're working on X, Y, and Z), but the faster kids do more of it, faster. Add in some, um, "personalities" on the team and it just doesn't sound like much fun at all... and it should always be (mostly) fun.

Having just raised a son, now 19 and having another age 14 at home with the eldest being highly competitive in soccer and the youngest deeply involved in music. I'll give my perspective considering their experiences in relationship to the quote above.

My eldest son was on a couple of different soccer clubs including a regionally competitive one. He did extremely well, however, after the typical elementary school / middle school / early HS experiences and in MS / HS club soccer, he came to the conclusion that he'd only been on one team in all that time that knew HOW to be a team, meaning, support each other on and off the field and help each other to each person's potential. With that in mind he'd finally had enough and decided it wasn't worth the frustration, instead, he chose an athletic endeavor he could pursue on his own.

DS#2 currently 14 on the other hand was blessed to be in the most gentle of classes, genuinely sweet kids with not a bully apparently in the class (unusual I know) All the kids seem to celebrate each other's victories and take great joy in group accomplishments.

In both of those scenarios, you could read what the kid would be inclined to display simply by talking to the child's parents of course.

I've become very discouraged the majority of the time not only with the attitude of many parents but the lack of effort on the part of coaches not not just teach but DEMAND with threat of severe ramifications that team members treat each other with not only respect and dignity but also insist that team members work to better each other and support each other on and off the area of athletic endeavor. It seems that either coaches think that effort unattainable or they simply don't get it that even a team of average ability can often out perform a team of greater ability in many instances if it's members are constantly out for the improvement and support of each other.

Now days I don't spend too much time with my kids involved in any team / group that doesn't understand the purpose and theory of team success. I've found it to be wasted time and effort always resulting in far more frustration, damage, and torment than it's worth.

When you DO find a team and a coach that understands the meaning of a team and it's purpose, support them greatly and sing their praises, it's a rare find these days.

Well-stated.

A goal of "excellence" is a very different thing than an environment which fosters brutality/cut-throat competition among peers in the name of "wins" instead.

Sums up perfectly why we've walked away from some activities and why, even as busy as we are, we're willing to give 110% to others. Those programs that are about making kids better people are very rare these days. It's worth volunteering to see to it that they continue; I see that as paying it forward.

It's really-- REALLY-- important to us as a family to not give even our tacit support to dysfunction/toxicity, too. For us, that has become something of a hill to die on, though, because it touches upon our core values as people. I realize that it isn't that way for everyone (and I really don't judge what is most important for others). In the situation described by the OP, we'd probably feel conflicted because walking away from lies/dysfunction would be in conflict with "stand your ground," (another core value).

IMO, and based only on what you've written, this is the major problem and is a significant failure of the coaching staff. A situation where 8-10 people who swim at different speeds are forced to share a single lane is foolish and (IMO) is a guaranteed way to create tension during exercise and out-of-water animosity between "teammates."

Seriously, are the coaches trying to create problems?

Agree x 1000. And not just when it comes to sports.

So many "excellent" academic schools are not necessarily devoted to personal excellence, in that they want each student to do his/her best, but to the kind of competitive environment that can lead to some pretty unhealthy behavior.

I'm not anti-competition... not by a long shot. One of the advantages of competing in a sport like swimming is the ability compete AT YOUR LEVEL. I was never one of the best swimmers on our team, but since I practiced with people of my ability, and swam against them at meets, it didn't matter. We were able to celebrate each others' successes (winning overall first place for our fastest teammates, a personal best for middle-of-the-road swimmers like me, or very basic accomplishments like completing 100 yards butterfly without stopping for newer swimmers). I beat and was beat by teammates on a regular basis... no one took it personally that I remember. The more competitively-minded took it as incentive, those of us who were just in it for fun smiled and shrugged.

I guess I never realized how good we had it. There were "mean girls," sure, and typical pre-teen and teen drama... but they were kept pretty under control because that was just the expectation.