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    #138287 - 09/16/12 08:49 PM Help calculating my son's GAI please
    Ephelidasa Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 09/16/12
    Posts: 40
    We recently had our son tested to rule out/identify any learning disabilities that he might have due to recently diagnosed epilepsy. Turns out he has some processing speed and divided attention issues, but is otherwise okay. I was trying to figure out his GAI because it's not listed in his report, but I'm not sure if I did it correctly. If anyone has experience with all these numbers, your help would really be appreciated.

    I came up with a 154 for the GAI. His FSIQ was listed at 135.

    Here are the results of his testing (first number is raw score, second number is scaled score):

    Verbal Comprehension Index= 142
    Perceptual Reasoning Index = 145
    Working Memory Index= 123
    Processing Speed Index= 88

    Verbal Domain:
    Information 23 19
    Vocabulary -- --
    Similarities 26 18
    Comprehension 20 14
    Word Reasoning -- --

    Working Memory:
    Digit Span 18 16
    Arithmetic 17 12
    Letter Number Seq. -- --

    Performance Domain:
    Block Design 52 18
    Matrix Reasoning 23 17
    Picture Concepts 20 17
    Picture Completion 23 14

    Processing Speed:
    Coding 33 7
    Symbol Search (0 err) 20 9
    Cancellation -- --


    Hopefully that makes sense. It's confusing to me because all this is new to me.
    Thanks in advance for any help.

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    #138351 - 09/17/12 10:34 AM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: Ephelidasa]
    Ephelidasa Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 09/16/12
    Posts: 40
    After looking over the numbers and reading the guide, my main concern is about substituting subtest scores.
    My son took the "information" section instead of the "vocabulary" section. Are the scores interchangeable?

    Also, I also saw that people have discussed test ceilings. His doc said he hit the ceiling on some subtests, so what does that say for his GAI and FSIQ?

    Thanks again.


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    #138360 - 09/17/12 11:30 AM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: Ephelidasa]
    morgans-mommy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/07/11
    Posts: 57
    Did the tester mention extended norms? Your son certaintly qualifies for it.
    http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Extended_Norms.html

    Subtest scores aren't technically interchangeable. You can use up to two substitutions when calculating FSIQ, but substitutions are only supposed to be done if a core subtest is somehow spoiled (test is interrupted, tester somehow screws it up, etc.)and therefore invalid.

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    #138366 - 09/17/12 12:09 PM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: Ephelidasa]
    revmom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/06/08
    Posts: 109
    My understanding is that substitutions are also allowed when decided ahead of time ("a priori") when there is a clinical reason, such as a motor skill issue for the Block Design subtest.

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    #138367 - 09/17/12 12:10 PM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: Ephelidasa]
    morgans-mommy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/07/11
    Posts: 57
    Yes. Revmom is correct. I had forgotten about a priori substitutions.

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    #138369 - 09/17/12 12:19 PM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: Ephelidasa]
    Ephelidasa Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 09/16/12
    Posts: 40
    Thanks for the response.

    I'm not sure why the doctor used the "information" test instead of the "vocabulary" test. I'm assuming he would have done okay on the vocabulary test as well because he NEVER stops talking (seriously, he even talks a lot in his sleep), but now I think it would be nice to have the GAI score since his processing speed numbers are so much lower. Not to mention, I've read that beyond a 23 point differential GAI is recommended and he has a 57 point difference.

    There was no mention of extended norms that I recall. She just said that he topped out, and was answering questions at the level of 16 to 18 year olds. At the time, I was very unaware of what that meant...I am trying my best to absorb as much info about the "gifted" world as I am able.

    What's frustrating is that according to the test results, he has severe divided attention issues, and his teacher seems to give out a lot of instructions verbally which he routinely misses (because his focus is elsewhere). In addition to this, the teacher also does a lot of timed tests for prizes. I'm guessing that his low processing speed might give him issues with that as well.
    I want to have numbers ready to show them if they tell me that they cannot accommodate his needs. It's a private school and he doesn't have an IEP, so they don't HAVE to change anything for him. It bothers me because I know he has a lot of potential, but he isn't going to thrive in his current classroom environment.

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    #138373 - 09/17/12 12:29 PM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: Ephelidasa]
    morgans-mommy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/07/11
    Posts: 57
    Yes, with that big a difference between his scores you can consider the FSIQ essentially invalid and it really should not be used. I'm surprised the tester didn't automatically at least include the GAI considering the huge gap between your son's score indexes. I would contact the tester and ask that the report be amended to add the GAI along with explanation as to why the GAI should be used as opposed to the FSIQ.

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    #138398 - 09/17/12 02:37 PM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: morgans-mommy]
    knute974 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/22/09
    Posts: 683
    Loc: controlled chaos
    Originally Posted By: morgans-mommy
    Did the tester mention extended norms? Your son certaintly qualifies for it.


    I'm not an expert but I'm not sure that he qualifies for extended norms. The report says that they are appropriate when you have a couple scores at the ceiling (typically 19). You can figure out the extended norms yourself from the raw scores. See the WISC Technical Report 7
    http://www.pearsonassessments.com/NR/rdo...echReport_7.pdf

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    #138411 - 09/17/12 06:05 PM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: Ephelidasa]
    MumOfThree Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1694
    Loc: Australia
    Did the tester comment as to whether his block design score was impacted by his processing speed issues? That test is timed and he was obviously very good at it, possibly better at it than shown due to the processing speed issue.

    I can't help with GAI but my understanding is that this is a the classic scenario where it is relevant - his PRI and VCI are in the same vicinity, his WMI is not uncommonly lower for a gifted child but the PSI is clearly a problem area making the FSIQ invalid, I am surprised it was calculated at all.

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    #138428 - 09/17/12 08:25 PM Re: Help calculating my son's GAI please [Re: Ephelidasa]
    Ephelidasa Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 09/16/12
    Posts: 40
    After looking at the extended norms technical report, it doesn't seem like he was at the absolute top for any of the sections, even though he had a 19 and some 18/17s. I read somewhere that if the child has more than two scores of 18 or higher, the extended norms should be used...but that doesn't really make any sense.
    Why would ext norms be used it the ceiling wasn't hit?

    I guess I don't really have an understanding of how the test works, so perhaps I'm missing something.

    A little confused why the doctor would tell us that he "topped out" on several subtests. Details. But I still want to get the clear picture. He's my kid, so I figure that's reason enough to want to know.

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