Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional IEP Question

Thank you all so much for heping me with this! I truly appreciate it and hope I can help others as much some day.

Okay, two more questions!

First, there is a paragraph that I think is more (or also) amenable to a modification to include more specific reference to 2e and more specific accomodation or whatever for it. It is this paragraph, which is included in the "Recommendations" section of the report:

"Staff should keep in mind the discrepancies between DS' cognitive abilities which impact the production, retention and speed of classroom work. Verbal comprehension and perceptual reasoning skills are high while working memory and processing speed are below average and well below average respectively."

Okay, so I like that this is in there but I think it needs to be more specific with regard to explaining the 2e. Futhermore, and more importantly, what exactly does "staff should keep in mind" mean? That's kind of a rehetorical question to y'all... Because I realize it doesn't really mean anything. I think we should have a more specific directive here... but what? Because how do we measure "staff keep[ing] in mind" and how do we enforce it? you know? (Perhaps it is the lawyer in me but it seems to be the school's tendency in the report to be rather vague in terms of what is expected of them... which leads me to suspect that is done purposely to 'protect' themselves from being called out for violation ... after all how can we say there is a violation when the accomodation is so vague? I feel my role (again right into lawyer mode) is to make it as specific as possible to I can make the school do specific things to help DS and be able to clearly hold the school accountable when the re is a violation.) Anyway, I think this is where I need to modify to include accmodation/remediation/whatever-it-is-DS-needs to help with the fact that he bascially has a "ferrari mind in a less-than-ferrari body" i.e., twice exceptional. Any help with what to say, and what to ask for, would be so very appreciated.

Second question! There is a recommendation that says the school wants permission to talk with DS' private therapist on an ongoing basis. Uh, really? They actually expect me to agree that? No, absolutely not. I am not giving anyone free reign to discuss DS' private medical information and treatment with DS' private therapist - what a betrayl to DS (he'd never forgive me if he found out and I wouldn't blame him) and what an intrusion on my family's and DS' privacy. If necessary, of course, I would give specific and limited permission at specific times; otherwise school goes through me. I will get relaevant info from therapist on an as needed basis (in the form of reports, letters, emails, etc) and pass along to school as I see fit and necessary (that is what I do with all of DS' medical info, isn't it? The school doesn't have permission to discuss DS with DS' vision therapist, neurologist, optometrist, etc). Okay, so sorry for my tirade, but my question is - is this a normal request of schools? Because I am bit offended by it (I know that's obvious). I guess if this is sort of 'par for the course' and pretty standard request then I will not be as offended (although I am still not agreeing to it). Furthermore, because all of DS' behaviors have resolved completely, once DS was taken out of the bad assistant's group, DS no longer gets therapy at the moment (at the suggestion of the therapist and I agreed - th eproblems are gone so no need to keep running there and paying money for therapy for behaviors that are no longer present)

I've never heard of this. I'd be leery of agreeing to it.

My son's team have never requested contact with any of his professionals outside of the school district. They've asked for whatever reports I can supply to add to his file, and that's it. I've had our private psychologist offer to come meet with the school team, but we didn't feel that the benefit would warrant the cost as the school team is already on board with everything she had recommended in her report, and are all very sensitive to DS's needs.

The team was also very sensitive about my confidentiality concerns, explaining that test results go in a confidential file (IEP's go in "public" files, as in any school staff who needs to can have access, but not test results or diagnoses specifics). The school district psychologist also explained that the child's file is the property of the parent and the school is simply the custodian of the file, which made me feel better.

I wouldn't allow school team direct access to outside people. I would stipulate that they go through you, and if necessary they can meet together but only with you present.

We have gone a different way with this. We have outside people we really trust to be discreet and represent our interests. We have given the school access to them. They go to the school, train teachers to deal with DS, and have made a huge difference in making school a better place for DS. They are listened to by school personnel where we are not (even when we say the same things). They take data and have figured out how to solve problems where their expertise has been really valuable.

It really depends how much you trust your outside people. I would not want private therapeutic information revealed. But if it is a matter of teaching the school what to do, it can be very good to have the whole team working together.

DeeDee

marytheres, I don't have time to reply with everything I have to say at the moment, but re the request for contact with the therapist - I think I would deny that by saying your son is not currently under the care of a therapist.

We ran into a very contentious situation with our older dd's school a few years ago where they requested us to sign off to allow school staff to contact her dr directly at any time. We were told that if we didn't sign they would not provide our dd with an IHP which she absolutely qualified for and needed. We absolutely trusted her drs but we didn't trust the school staff - the school nurse and the 504 administrator both were stubbornly insisting that our dd did not have the same medical issues that were clearly outlined on her routine medical forms filled out and signed by her dr. Our intuition, as well as comments made by the school staff on several occasions led us to believe the school woud use that contact to try to argue against our accommodations request (which btw was a very standard accommodation routinely given out in our school district). We were stuck in that we couldn't get the health plan without signing so we talked to our dds dr and they told us that a) they couldn't talk to the school staff without getting our explicit permission first due to HIPPA and b) they suggested we write a letter to them stating we did not give them permission to talk to the school staff unless they first contacted us.

One of our additional concerns in signing was privacy of records -the school nurse assured us that she was the only person who had access to dd's medical file, but in practice that wasn't really true, and the records weren't kept in a secure location.

Gotta run - I'll be back later

polarbear

Ps - another quick thought on 2e - does y school district have a person associated with the gifted department who deals with IEPs and 2e kids? I woud consider calling the gifted department supervisor and asking about this - if there is a contact person ask them for suggestions on the IEP. It might also be helpful to request that they attend the IEP meeting.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! All good points and good advice. And it makes total sense that you would tell the school they have access but then put in writing to the doctors that they are not to talk to school without permission from parent first. The medical professional is the one who gets sued if he/she were to violate the HIPPA (not the school) - doctors should be very cautious and very unwilling without specific permission. Thank God for HIPPA.

Anyway, I will approach first as "well DS has "graduated" from therapy so the permission is irrelevant and unnecessary." I can;t imagine how she would continue to push once told that.

I hate to sound paranoid. I am sure this particular psych has good intentions but I have always felt she has her own agenda with DS ... why, I do not know. But my feeling is she really wants him labled with a behavioral disorder of some sort... she wants him classified as something. I am not sure exactly what and perhaps she is truly well-meaning but I feel she is defintely has him mis-labled or misdiagnosed in her head. But I do not trust her at all with DS. If she had her way with DS he would be labled either on the spectrum or ODD, I believe - perhaps Adhd. But somehting like that I think she wants him classified as. I forsee no problems with DS teacher insisting on this stuff (I highly highly doubt she will) - she has had no problems with DS at all and she seems to get him ... I also do not presently see any problems with the new school psych pushing for this kind of thing - at least not presently. SO I think thanks to the advice and thoughts here :), we'll be able to navigate right around this safely and effectively.

I have no idea but I will be asking. Thank you - very good advice! Probabaly not; but you never know and such a person's involvement could be very helpful.

As an aside, why would a school psych want a child "labled?" Any idea? I mean, is it just that she really feels he has something going on that is not being addressed? or are there other factors at play? Funding? Does she want a 'shadow' on DS - to make it easier for teacher/assistnats? Or is it that she wants DS put in certain classes/programs that she perceives would make it easier on the staff? What? Just wondering what would be behind that if it isn't truly accurate and in best onterest of child. Or is that she just really feels like he needs a particular dx/lable and is trying to what she sees as best for DS?

Here it's for funding purposes. At the moment my DS gets limited shared TA time because he doesn't have the right tag/label to get designated TA hours. The school is pushing for a spectrum diagnosis (and he does seem spectrumy sometimes) because the funding is much better.

I know in my area it's often difficult to get the schools to acknowledge any diagnoses or areas that the student needs help because any additional accomodations granted to the student cost the school more money. The accomodations cost more money than the label would provide. In a situation such as marythere's son's, I don't see how providing behavioral support is going to give the school more money. Cost them money, definitely, but how would "needs behavioral support" give the school more funding?

marythere,
While the school may have the ulterior motives you are worrying about -- it's entirely possible -- it is also possible the availability of behavioral intervention is meant to curtail situations like you had with the unhelpful assistant. Behavioral supports can be a positive benefit in a lot of situations that don't imply anything negative about the child. For instance, when you were dealing with a teaching assistant who did not understand your child and was acting in a way that was counter to what he needed, if you had had someone trained in behavioral intervention come in to observe, s/he could have recognized that the assistant was supporting him in a way that forced him into bad behavior, and they could have forced positive change for your son's benefit. Just a thought.

I know there's a stigma to behavioral intervention, but it's not a "bad kid" label.

I'm not sure what the accommodations would cost them - I just know that it's been mentioned several times that a spectrum diagnosis can result in better support. At the end of the day it comes down to how many dollars they can get from the government Vs. kids in need. My DS is pretty high functioning so even if he got an ASD tag he likely would not get the full support that the same tag would bring to another child. Education is sorely underfunded. They're working towards a more inclusive model where as many kids as possible can be mainstreamed, which means more TA's. It'll be interesting to see what that will look like.

It also depends on the child, too, I think. Your DS likely does better at academics than mine. Who cares how many grade levels ahead my DS's math is/was... What they see in class are his sensory needs, his attention problems, his impulsivity, his social awkwardness and his French language deficits. Meanwhile the math they do is below his level so he gets bored and sloppy with it. Also his language disorder interferes with his ability to do math word problems. It's a blessing really, because he gets support. (Strange way of looking at it, I know).