Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional 2E Schools?

I just came across information about The Lang School in New York City which specializes in meeting the needs of 2E kids. It sounds great - and very pricey. Does anyone know of any other schools specializing in meeting the needs of 2E kids? I know Montgomery County, Maryland public schools has a 2E program but I am wondering about private 2E schools or programs to look at in case we get to the point of seeking out of district placement.

http://www.thelangschool.org/Default.aspx

Our district in New Mexico has four schools, but I'm not sure of the quality.

http://www.aps.edu/special-educatio...s-for-students-who-are-twice-exceptional

Yes I saw that Albuquerque is on the list of districts with 2E programs. Some others were Howard County Maryland, Westchester County, NY and Scottsdale, AZ. I would have thought that there would be more private options, though...

St Christopher Academy in the Seattle area for High School (private). Although the website states it is for kids with "learning differences" and 2E is not stated directly, the focus is truly on 2E students. My son just started as a sophomore after we discovered his 2E profile last year.

http://www.stchristopheracademy.com/html/introduction/introduction.html

The 2e newsletter has made several references to Bridges Academy in California. It sounds quite fabulous but I don't live in California so I only know what I have read. They are explicitly gifted and learning different.

http://www.bridges.edu/

Is it really possible that there are so few? My mind is racing with the idea of how to make this work. My mother lives only a few subway stops from The Lang School and we are close enough that I could - technically - go stay there with DD M-F and come home on weekends. It would mean a total disruption to family life as well as being expensive and exhausting but there may a way to actually get her what she needs.

I am thinking my current options are

a) keep battling with the school district who I think *wants* to meet her needs but just doesn't get it and would have to reinvent the wheel for her

b) cobble together something with OOD placement locally involving either adding spec ed to the really great private I found or gifted education to a dedicated LD school

c) find some yet to be discovered nugget of gold in the form of a school no one seems to know exists

d) somehow convince the district to provide spec ed services while I homeschool/unschool the giftedness

e) find a way to make it work at this already existing gem just a couple of hours away.

Ironically of the half dozen or so school districts I have found nationwide that currently have established 2E programs I grew up up in one, DH grew up in one and his parents and siblings all currently live in one. It's frustrating to be so enticingly close to something that could work...

Pemb, it's good that you are looking at all options.

I do want to mention, without bursting any bubbles, that I went through a major escape-seeking phase with DS's education. I looked everywhere (at one point we were willing to move *anywhere* in principle) before realizing that the "right thing" did not already exist, and the problem had to be solved over time. And it was, eventually, not without difficulty.

How do your negotiations stand now? Your meeting went well, there is another one planned (when?)-- there is an ongoing attempt to make things work, right? I know you can't trust everyone involved, but are you planning to give them a chance to redeem themselves? Has the year started, and how is it going? Is your DD getting the services she needs, and those nice breaks you planned in?

DeeDee

I was thinking it would be easier to find schools focusing on a particular need and making sure they accomodate gifted and other needs. Here's a site listing schools with a dyslexia focus:
http://www.dyslexiclikeme.org/schools-2/dyslexic-schools-n-s/york-schools/

I have just read about these schools. Academy in CO is a new public charter created by parents who could not find the right fit for the children. The Wa Lab school is private and areound for 45 years.


Academy for Advanced & Creative Learning
Colordo Springs
http://www.academyacl.org/

The Lab School of Washington
http://www.labschool.org/podium/default.aspx?t=136085
"For 45 years, The Lab School of Washington has been providing an exceptional, college-preparatory academic experience for bright students (grades 1-12) with ADHD, dyslexia, and other learning disabilities. Our innovative, arts-infused curriculum is experiential and multi-sensory, helping young people to overcome difficulties with reading, spelling, writing, and math, while preparing them for a rewarding range of college and career choices. Take a look and learn about all that Lab School has to offer"


They also have a campus in Baltimore
Baltimore Lab School
http://www.baltimorelabschool.org/podium/default.aspx?t=140920

Tuition is high, but I believe you can apply for your district to help fund.

I like both of these options.

also - Look at Eagle Hill School in Southport,
www.eaglehillschool.org for a school that specialized in LD and at least gets placing students by ability.

Good Luck!
Grinity

I have seen a few LD schools that say their students are "above average to superior" intelligence but there is a different feel to reading about schools that specialize in 2E kids. Whether public or private it is clear that they "get it". I mean really, really G-E-T it. I am just so exhausted from constantly explaining, arguing, advocating for DD's unique needs. It just seems it would be so nice - better for her and easier for me - to just plug into a program designed by people who understand that 2E is not JUST LD or JUST gifted. The 2 things create a whole new situation that is not just part one and part the other. Does this make sense?

Yes DeeDee the year has started. It is clear that there are a few people in the district who are indeed trying to redeem themselves. The new DSS, although only interim, asked to stay with the case to make sure everything is properly addressed. The new SW is going out of her way to address DD's anxiety and make me feel comfortable with the school situation. The new director of Pupil Personnel Services seems to want to make this work - she came in when it was at its worst and I think recognized just HOW badly it was handled. So yes, there is an attempt to make it work.

Unfortunately despite the best intentions of these 3 no one seems to actually GET IT. I mean really, truly understand what DD needs. Yes, they instructed the principal and teacher to remove the color chart from DD's classroom. But they didn't understand WHY - or else it was simply letter of the law compliance without any true intention of addressing the issue. They kept the same bees (if you recall the teacher planned to use a "Bee-Havior" chart with each child being a bee who is moved through different color hives) but instead of colors the teacher is using checkmarks next to the children's names. Basically one check equals yellow and 2 checks equals red. Everything else about the system remained exactly the same. No change whatsoever. So not only is it basically a "black and white chart" as another parent put it but it is actually the most punitive form of it. If a child does something wrong they are sent to the board to put a check next to their name so the entire class sees "the walk of shame." Also there is no way to earn your way back - i.e. no way to erase a check once you earn one - like the systems that do not allow a child to earn their way back to green. Totally a negative system - no positive reinforcement, no incentive to improve. The best you can do is the starting point so the only way to move is down.

Last week DD was telling me about her first day in reading pull-out for the year and said "I want to fill all my color charts with red this year." When I asked what she meant she said "Oh, I mean sticker charts with stickers. I wonder why I said color charts..." She then went on the explain the checkmark system in her classroom and to tell me that she thinks they have that instead of a color chart because of her "because I shouldn't be around color charts." I asked who told her that and she said "No one - it's just my suspicion." So my 7 year old made the connection between these 2 systems but none of the adults in the school could? Really?

We were also having issues with homework differentiation. Unless something is spelled out - crystal clear - they just don't get it. I mean you have a kid with so many LD issues, you are supposed to be providing a para in addition to about 10 hours a week of pull out (no para yet but supposedly coming soon), we are awaiting an assistive technology eval - and common sense doesn't tell you that she can't write down her own homework assignments? Or that you need to assure that she is clear on what you want her to do with that worksheet that has no instructions on it? Or to make sure that worksheet is appropriate for her with all the LD issues? Literally every single thing has to be explained and regulated. There is no basic understanding of her needs or of WHY what she needs is different. It just gets so exhausting - is it any wonder a dedicated 2E school or program sounds so appealing?

They have provided DD with a pass - which was supposed to be included ever since the first IEP was drafted but was never actually made available last year - for DD to leave class and visit the SW when she starts to feel overwhelmed. No enrichment in place though. There were supposed to be "enrichment/anxiety" breaks but they haven't been able to figure out how to make them work so have asked to wait until the next IEP meeting to implement them. We said no, but as of yet, still no enrichment breaks. All of these things would be automatic in the 2E programs I have read about. Built in breaks, kinesthetic components to the classroom, built in enrichment, AT, etc, etc, etc.

Has anyone tried adding LD to a good private or gifted work to a dedicated LD school? I just can't believe that some smart, dedicated educators haven't recognized the need for more of these programs.

I think that they do, they just don't know how to make these programs economically viable. I know that there was one private 2e school here in the Denver area but it went out of business. I'm guessing that you need a combination of high population density and high personal incomes to have enough qualified students whose parents can afford such schools.

What little growth I've seen in this area, all seems to be happening in charter schools. If they are successful, they fill up fast and tend to have long-shot lotteries once you get past the first year or two. One of the schools is an off-shoot of another GT charter that catered to the the non-LD, high achieving crowd. Have you checked out whether there are any 2e oriented charters in your area?

Have you talked to any of the GT folks in your district outside of your school? Here, they all seem to know what everyone else is doing. Maybe they could give you some leads. I can understand your desire to look for alternatives to your current situation.

I also suspect it mostly boils down to economics. Running a private school is really tough financially, and with 2e kids you're taking one already small subset of the population of school-age kids (gifted) and intersecting it with another small subset (LD/etc) and that's got to mean there aren't a ton of prospective clients to begin with - then further factor in families that can't afford a private school or don't have time to drive or would prefer to stay where they are at etc - and you have a very small potential paying client basis.

We had a private school in our area that dealt with LD that was an *academic* success but still ultimately failed, due to a combination of economics and vision differences among the staff. It was successful for quite a few years, and I think that success was due primarily to focusing on *one* particular need (dyslexia), hiring teachers who had personally experienced dyslexia, and having a curriculum that was unique and not available in our public schools. Students would attend the school for a few years, then head back into public school once they had concurred both *how* to read and how to cope with having an LD (which was a big part of the program). Although it was not a school for gifted children, the students there were placed in whatever level class was appropriate for their current academic functioning, which allowed a great deal of flexibility - for instance a child who was advanced in math could be in whatever grade level class that was appropriate, while still getting direct instruction at a very low level in reading or writing etc. So it wasn't a 2e school, but it could fit many of the needs of some 2e kids. My older dd attended summer school and was in a class of 6 students with one instructor and the instructor, who knew nothing about her at the start of the session, had figured the one thing that would later prove key in resolving why our dd was struggling with reading - so the instructors, with smaller class sizes and the approach they used, were really able to get to know and understand each student.

I wonder sometimes about some of the schools who advertise that their mission is to serve LD (dyslexia etc) as well as ADHD/etc - sometimes I think schools reach for too large a swath of students (in order to have enough students to enroll) to be truly effective at helping what any one particular 2e student might need. But that's just me - not sure there's any basis for it in real life.

Pemberley, it's really tough knowing what to do for our 2e kids, and there really likely isn't going to be a perfect or even near-perfect solution. Honestly, school options for my non-2e kiddo aren't all that great! But we have found a good compromise for our ds12 in a small private school which does *not* specialize in any kind of 2e stuff or LD or anything. They are simply a small school who are striving to produce good citizens and high-achieving students. The key for ds has been that while the staff may not know much about ds' disability and hasn't likely ever taught a child like him before, they trust that the parents know what they are talking about when we talk, and they are willing and happy and eager to make accommodations etc that make sense in order to see their students succeed. I think we had a small bit of that occasionally in ds' previous public school, but overall there was an air of the teacher is the expert, input from parents wasn't welcome, SPED budgets were thread-bare, and the one teacher we had who seem genuinely concerned about ds suddenly seemed to have a gag-order placed on her every action and word once we initiated an IEP eligibility process. It was a tremendous stress reliever *for me* when ds changed schools, as well as it being a good choice for ds.

The bad news is, it took us until middle school to figure it out! And we knew about his challenges starting in 2nd grade. Hang in there - it's a journey. And definitely not a quick or easy journey!

polarbear

Hi Pemberley,

I hear how frustrated you are. You thought you had really made things better, and yet they are not entirely solved yet. ARGH.

And yet-- you have located the people of good will who want to help, and who have power to do something about it, which is step 1.


Totally makes sense. If you can find such a thing, and make it work, awesome!

Where I am, there is no such thing, so we had to build a custom deal with the public school. It cost me more gray hair than I can tell you, but it is really grooving now, when DS is in 5th grade and leaves for the next school at the end of the year. But we did it, and it is working well for him.


Which of these is the right audience for a little selection of your research on positive behavior management strategies in the classroom, along with your anecdote about your DD seeing straight through the check marks being an analogue for the color chart? The DSS?


Yet. Maybe you can get them there, maybe you have to bail. It took me a few years to educate our school, but they are fully on board and wildly supportive now.


Some of this is classic early-in-the-year explaining. I just finished working out why DS's homework system is not working (the stuff is in six different places, and he can't cope), and communicating with the teachers about how we need to fix the system so that it can be managed by a kid with poor executive function. Only I have the overview, so I need to fix this.

The writing down of homework-- is it in the IEP that it gets written down for her? This may need to be an amendment if it's not explicitly in there. You can set up a conversation with teacher/special ed teacher/ whoever's responsible, explain the problems, and work through them to a solution. If they "don't want to" that would be a huge red flag that would make me start looking for other schools, but if it is a problem of educating the teachers, that is pretty standard special needs parenting at the start of the year. Each one of these interesting kids is different, and teachers often don't know stuff until you tell them.


Well, that's a serious IEP violation. As are several of the other things you mentioned, sounds like. One can approach them about all these things, whoever the point person is (DSS?), and politely assert again, along with noticing that the situation doesn't seem to be changing as fast as we hoped, and what resources can we put into place to make this a better environment?


Amen to that. Can you have your advocate do any or all of this shepherding and educating FOR you? Ours does a ton of it, does it more gracefully and patiently than I would, and it's worth what I pay her because I don't have to get aggravated. If Advocate knows your DD's needs well enough (should by now), this could be a good move.

Pemberley, I'm worried about how traumatized YOU are as a result of all you've been through. Still thinking that finding ways to manage that will be beneficial.

DeeDee

I *think* I have gotten the homework situation addressed. (I asked that all hw go through spec ed teacher to make sure it is properly differentiated and classroom teacher is writing down the assignments for DD.) SW is my contact person and DSS is consultant's. It sometimes takes some (passionate) persuading but I am usually able to get my point across. I have provided SW with a bit of research - just enough that she believes my requests are legitimate. She really seems to want to understand the situation and to make things work for DD. That is a HUGE plus and was the biggest missing piece last year.

It just feels like every time one issue is addressed the next one pops up. I can't help but feeling like I started at zero and my knowledge has far surpassed the professional educators already. Granted I have a personal stake in this - which is much more compelling than the professional stakes that they have. Yet shouldn't they have a better grasp than this by now? The districts with 2E programs had to see this over and over in order to justify building programs. DD can't be the only 2E child in our district - just the one with the most glaring difference between her E's. Oh, and outspoken parents who saw what happened when everything was mishandled at the magnet.

Yes, DeeDee I think it is fair to say that I too have been traumatized to some extent. It was bad enough when she suffered because of ignorance or foolhardy positions by school personnel. The principal's actions earlier this year, though, really rose to a different level. Seeing someone intentionally trying to harm your child is a terrible thing. I fought like a mother tiger and now people see it for what it was. I am forcing my self to be passive now - vigilant but passive nonetheless. With the classroom management situation I told SW that I felt I had explained the problem thoroughly now it is up to them to address it. They will manage her classroom however they choose to manage it and she will react however she reacts. All I can do is stand back and watch the train wreck happen... That led to a discussion of of FAPE, LRE, federal mandates, etc. They now KNOW that I understand DD's rights and their responsibilities. Unfortunately wanting to meet her needs won't automatically translate to being able to do so. That's where my eagerness to find an appropriate alternative comes from.

Maybe just knowing that this incredibly expensive, incredibly inconvenient 2E resource is available will be enough. I will keep trying to locate a reasonable alternative closer to home. Maybe the district seeing the price tag of an OOD placement will make them decide that the little power plays, letter of the law compliance and other gamesmanship is not in their best interest and they will step in to stop it. Or maybe we will just continue down this road that we are on. Who knows...

Just got a call from the SW. Apparently DD told her today how uncomfortable the checkmarks are making her and how afraid she is of getting one. SW is calling DSS to see if maybe they can overrule the principal and introduce responsive classroom instead. A little late but at least an attempt to try to help.

All I can do is stand back and be prepared to hold them accountable if it gets any worse. (We are up to about 4 times a day that she is using her pass to remove herself from the classroom. 10 days into the school year and so far only 1 day without reporting a headache.)

I am going to start visiting some local LD schools as well as the 2E school in NYC. If they can't or won't create an environment at the local public that allows DD to access her education without triggering her anxiety we have to know what options are available. Unilateral OOD placement is not a great option but we need to be prepared.

MON - the 2E school near you that closed - did they market themselves as 2E or are there "code words" I should be looking for? If you don't want to out your location on line maybe you can pm me in case the group of parents trying to keep it going may be in an accessible location.

And Pemberley!!! Your DD is advocating for herself-- probably because she saw you speaking up for her and understands that she can. That is a really big deal for an anxious kid, and I would take it as a huge step forward for her.

I'm glad you, the consultant, and DD are all finding ways to improve things for her.

DeeDee

Just an update - I visited the 2E school in NYC and all I can say is WOW! I mean really, truly WOW!

The fact that these kids are gifted is first and foremost (which I think is the biggest thing missing from our local public that focuses primarily on remediating deficits) and each child's needs are addressed individually. A 2e kid, regardless of what form their E's take, can thrive. Each classroom has a gifted teacher and a spec Ed teacher. Maximum of 10 kids to a classroom (grade 2/3 currently has 5 kids with the 2 teachers!) and all math and reading/writing is done 1:1. This means that each child gets what they need in these areas whether it is enrichment or remediation. Apparently parents have been "ridiculously successful" in getting the tuition fully covered by the Dept of Ed.

Things are currently going well for my DD at her local public but this program really seems like a dream come true . If I had known about it a few months ago I would have moved heaven and earth to make it happen. They say that they expect a child to be with them for 2-3 years and then transition back to a mainstream school setting. They also said they expect "20 more schools just like us" to open in the next 10 years in NYC alone. I think it was started by a 2E parent who saw a need and decided to create a school to fill that void. Maybe as the economy improves more of these types of schools will appear?

The biggest thought that kept running through my head while I was there was that I wouldn't need to advocate anymore - there would be no need for fighting, arguing, cajoling, explaining. They would just *get*what DD needs. She wouldn't have to be bent like a pretzel to fit the existing curriculum the curriculum would be adjusted to fit her needs. There would be a presumption that she can succeed rather than constant efforts to prevent her from failing. They understand the emotional toll being 2E has taken on most of these kids. It was as if everyone who I have gotten to know on this board brought their kids together in one place and did it right.

If you happen to live near a 2E program, public or private, you may want to check it out. You may get some good ideas to take home and try with your school. Or you may just enjoy the feeling of normalcy that comes from being around others with a similar dilemma.

Going to visit the 2E school with DH tomorrow. Any ideas for questions I should ask or things I should be looking for?

If we like what we see tomorrow consultant is going to approach the district about paying for this as OOD placement. I don't want to go in starry-eyed - if it's not going to be the right place I want to figure that out now.

Input? Please...