Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Have test results - had meeting with school pg3

This is why I am thinking the achievement scores might be able to help you more than the IQ scores. Not to say that they will "get" those either but it is laid out pretty clearly on the WJ achievement test report. Even I could understand it at first glance...:-)

The grade equivalents on the WJ's are usually what teachers can relate to. Better yet is results on the school's own testing, because they are very familiar with that. If you can convince someone to give your kiddo an end-of-year test, that might be helpful.

Yes, on what StPauliGirl said: perhaps going directly to the district GT people might be worth a try. The only drawback I'd see with that would be the possibility of alienating the school if they feel like you're going over their heads. I might talk with the teacher you like first if you are going to speak to the district and tell her that you plan to do so just so you can get more info on what they have to offer as your dd as she progresses through school or something like that where it doesn't sound like you are heading to the district to complain.

Secondly, re 1111's post, I have two thoughts. I do think that achievement scores are more familiar to schools, but they are also more subject to inflation in kids who've done outside tutoring or things of the sort and there is the possibility that the school may again interpret high numbers as a result of your working with her, even if that isn't the case, and it doesn't sound like it is .

My other thought in regard to achievement tests is to consider which one you want to do if you go that route. They are generally significantly less expensive than IQ testing, which is good, and tests like the WJ, like 1111 mentions, will get her those DYS numbers if they come out high, which sounds like a good possibility given her IQ #s. OTOH, the WJ isn't a test used by schools usually and it might mean more to them to see apples compared to apples. I'd consider looking @ what tests they use: MAPS, DRA, ITBS, etc. and see if there is a way to get her tested on one of those or even an above level one if you are considering something like the ITBS.

The other thing with short tests like the WJ, and I know that I've said this before on this board, is that they don't always give the best estimation of the child's level in regard to where s/he needs to be placed. I've seen some wildly high numbers on them, even in my own kids, that really didn't reflect the placement needs. One of my girls was ready for PhD level work (grade equivalent 18+) as a very young 7 y/o 2nd grader if I took the reading/writing parts of her WJ-III at face value. Honestly, she's a fantastic reader and writer and would have done well with a couple grades of acceleration at that point (probably could have held her own in a 5th grade language arts class), but there was absolutely no way she needed post-graduate level work in that area despite those scores. My take away is to take scores on WJ and WIAT type of tests with a bit of a grain of salt: really high #s mean that the child is quite advanced in that area, but they may come out higher than would reflect true educational placement needs.

I agree with Cricket2. The scores you will get show that your kid is ready for more work than the grade they are in. That is about it. And that is good enough for me. But it seems to me the scores are not necessarily reflecting the whole truth but rather a glimpse of your child's HIGH points. Usually subjects are way broader than what they get to do on the test and acceleration to the grade level WJ reveal would not work. I am not putting my kid in 4th grade for sure...:-)

((facepalm))
I have to agree with you. But the teacher sounds wonderful, and a wonderful teacher can mean a wonderful year.
Keep an eye on things and get that DYS application in.
Love and More Love,
Grinity

I do still think that even if you work with a kid there is no way that would automatically yield exceptionally high achievement scores. A child that is of average intelligence simply would not be able to advance that dramatically (say 5 years above their age) academically even with tutoring.

Agree or not?

I wonder if there is anything written about that. So you could print it and have it ready to show in case that argument comes up from the school.

I don't know if there are any studies out there regarding how far one can "hothouse" a child, so to speak, but I suspect that the further one gets out of grade level, the more likely the child is gifted and not just hothoused.

The closest to anything along those lines that I could find was on Kumon's website (I checked both them and Sylvan, assuming that they are two major tutoring centers nationwide) that noted that,

(http://www.kumon.com/AboutKumon.aspx)

What I know of Kumon is that it is pretty drill intensive, so I am having a hard time imagining that more than half of their students, or even 12% of their students (24% of 50%), are gifted-highly gifted. That, to me, would lend toward indicating that it may be possible to get a ND child to perform up to 2-3 grade levels up. (I'm sure that there are some gifted kids going to tutoring programs like Sylvan and Kumon, I'm just not sure that it is that many of their clients.)

I am wondering if Kumon is pulling a sales trick there...;-)

So I'm contemplating getting the WJ achievement testing done. I just have some questions about it versus IQ scores.

As I have mentioned before, I have done very little with dd in terms of teaching. She has decided here and there to do a workbook page but never more than 1-2 times a month. If she chooses to do something it is usually writing stories/making books (she just made a nature book), arts and crafts, science experiments she comes up on her own, word searches, coloring, or mazes.

I have had a few talks with her and asked her what she thinks of her class/classmates, and she says she feels uncomfortable b/c the instruction is too slow (and the classmates don't want to play what she wants to play). I think she would benefit from a much faster pace of learning and could probably hold her own if she were to go to 2nd grade for math.

She seems to get math though with little to no instruction. Since school has restarted I have been helping older dd (in 3rd grade) with her math, which she is struggling with, and younger dd is piping up with the answers.

This all said, I don't know how she would score on the WJ-III. It is based on things that are learned academically and if she isn't being/hasn't been instructed at an advanced level I doubt her results would be in the same percentiles as her WISC. And I know in the past comparing ability (IQ) to achievement has been a basis for determining if a learning disability is present. I seriously doubt she has a learning disability so would she be inaccurately diagnosed to have one b/c of a discrepancy?

Do highly gifted kids still score high on the WJ despite no acceleration unless there is a learning disability?

(Sorry for the scattered and jumbled post... can't seem to organize my thoughts today... need more coffee. I hope my question makes sense.)

Oh, and wanted to add that I think this principal thinks that I'm just destined to be an unsatisfied parent. Between one dd needing more help which I can't get her... and the other dd who needs more advancement; which sounds like they either a.) don't believe me or b.) are unwilling to provide, I'm believing more and more each day that our school (a magnet) doesn't have their students' best interests at heart and teaches to the middle.