Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Potty training and school issues, help please?

Bear is finally over his fear of pooping on the potty. However he still prefers using his training potty and still won't go potty unless told to.

The program he's going into is not the one we wanted. It is a homeschool program with a one day a week small children's class. I will be acting as his aid. He's at the top of the list for the program we want him in, two days a week on campus, two at home, and a field trip or event. It's K-5, one teacher, single room classroom style.

The problem is that the administrator does not want him in that class unless he is fully potty trained. He is 5 years and 6 months old and has sensory processing disorder and anxiety problems. He doesn't seem to know he needs to potty till a couple seconds before it happens, if that. I'm pretty sure discriminating against him because of the potty training issues is illegal (not to mention the fact I will be acting as his aid so they don't even have to provide one), can anyone give me any input on this? Big words and specific laws would be amazingly helpful for this particular situation. Thanks!

I have no legal advice to offer (sorry) but I have heartfelt empathy. SPD was something we were looking at for DS8 (later diagnosed with ADHD & language processing disorder) and pooping "normally" was his nemesis.

Just like your son, he wouldn't feel it until it was just about to happen, or even until it was already in his pants. Preschool (4) was a risky game (never had an accident, phew, but he was only there for four hours per week), Kindergarten (5) was tricky... again, no accidents but I sent him in a pull up twice and kept him home a couple of times because I sensed something was up. Grade 1 (6) was the first time he actually had an accident in school. (sigh).

It was the last time it happened, and now he's 8 and going into grade 3, and it all seems to be resolved. No more accidents, no more smudges.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that for his preschool (and onwards as well) they insisted on total potty training. The days when I sent him in pull ups were unknown to them. I felt justified in breaking the rules because the system can be so ridiculous sometimes and unfair to kids like ours.

Hang in there I hope you get the legal leverage you need.

Man that sounds frustrating!

I would think at the public school you'd find this hard for them to do, legally (just guessing), but these sound like private programs...is that the case? Seems like they'd have more leeway to make a restriction.

Anyway to get this administrator's ear, have them 'give it a try' for a couple weeks to see how it goes (formal or informal trial period)?

With one of my kids we went the full bowel-clinic-with-psychologist route and it came to this:

-- is he withholding and therefore constipated? if so, treat the constipation.
-- use reward systems to encourage the behavior you want to see; make it meaningful.
-- "eventually kids learn to do this."

Really; that was the standard professional advice from the major regional professionals. I know how hard this can be.


Is it a public or a private program? If private, they can exclude him on this basis.

It is true that after age 3 some doctors will provide a medical diagnosis of "incontinence"-- but you would still have to go through the formal evaluation process to have the medical problem recognized in a public school. You might have to get him an IEP, and in that process demonstrate that the potty issues are a result of his disability, and put into place a plan to work on the potty issues; it sounds like these folks you are dealing with are not set up for that.

I wish I could be more encouraging...
DeeDee

Not sure what legal footing you have, but it sounds as if you are describing "encopresis", which is most definitely a medical condition just as asthma, migraines, seizures, and diabetes (I mention these specifically because there can be an emotional interplay with those conditions as well) .

You may have had this work-up already; if so, disregard

I see kids with encopresis all the time. Whether it was anxiety or a physical issue that triggered the encopresis...it almost always spirals into a viscious cycle of fear - holding - accident - pain - shame - fear and so on that results in concrete physical complications such as anal fissures/tears, slack anal muscles, chronic constipation, fecal compaction and even serious issues like megacolon.

I send all my encopretic kids to their PCP to rule out medical complications or causes including food intolerances, endocrine issues, and the physical problems mentioned above. The PCP can put a plan to address issues such as fiber therapy or miralax and so on.

I would approach the administrator with the facts that encopresis is not the same as "late potty-training", and is every bit as discriminatory to keep your ds out as not letting a child with a colostomy into the program.

This was my son. What ultimately worked (we tried SO MANY THINGS... won't go into that detail or this would be a novel) but what ultimately worked was our pediatrician (God bless her ) prescribing a 45 day course of laxatives (PEG). I was really skeptical because I thought that would create dependence, but I was desperate.

Sure enough, it worked. My theory is that while being on the laxatives (and pooing regularly) his brain/body finally learned what regular BM's and a NON-stuffed bowel actually is supposed to feel like.

I am SO HAPPY. (OMGOSH). The first 7 1/2 years of this were torture.

Bear has been on Miralax for years simply so he'll have movements as opposed to staining every 15 minutes. He's at a really low dose, but if he misses it you know.

It's a charter school program run through the public school system.

I like the idea of asking for a trial period. I know the potty part won't really be an issue for him or the other kids (the charter school kids around here are very accepting of personal differences thankfully), it's mainly an issue for the administrator. Even the teacher could care less.

Wyldkat, I think there is the immediate issue, but there is also a future planning issue.

Do you feel he needs you as an aide only for the toileting, or also to manage the anxiety and SPD? How are the anxiety and SPD manifest, and how are they being addressed?

Do you plan to continue having him participate in charter school programming of this kind in the future?

Does the charter school honor IEPs?

My feeling is, if he needs an aide, then you should request a full educational evaluation from the school district, and go through that process. See what emerges. If the team finds that he needs resources (accommodations or services) to be successful in school, any public school (I think this includes charters, not sure) should be required to provide those resources. This may not be important for kindergarten as you are envisioning it, but may become more important as you want him to increase his independence.

Having you as his aide may not be the strategy that maximizes his learning for the long run; if he were mine, I'd set the ball rolling so that by next year, I'd know what other options exist.

DeeDee

ETA: Having an IEP would confer significant legal rights, including not being barred from school about the toileting; it could also offer services and supports to address the other issues.

We tried for an IEP this past year and he didn't qualify, but the district realized he needed help so he was allowed to attend the special needs preschool for socialization and school readiness a small amount of time each week.

He'll need me as an aide for the toileting and his other issues, but the other issues won't be a problem after he's comfortable in the environment. I'm hoping to phase out as his aid once he's comfortable with the teacher and the environment, pending potty issues.

We;re planning to keep him in the K-5 one room schoolhouse program through 5th grade, once he gets in that is.

He has socialization issues with children his own age, they are too unpredictable for him. He has trouble with transitions and that is worse when he is in a new environment around new people. He has severe perfectionism issues and is very non-compliant when it comes to things he feels he can't get right immediately. He tends to hang back and watch until something looks to interesting to not try. He has trouble with change of any kind. However all of this depends on the day as to exactly what will be extreme or mild at any point in time.

The time spent with the special needs preschool helped smooth out a lot of rough spots, no more "He's looking at me!!! Make him STOP!!!" for example.

Had Hirschprung's disease been ruled out?