Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Have test results - had meeting with school pg3

We had our 6 yo dd tested to see if she would qualify for the district's gifted program (self-contained class) that starts in 2nd grade. I went into it with doubts, dreading it actually, thinking she would be somewhere on the cut off for qualifying. I think I have received the shock of my life to be quite honest. Turns out she is highly gifted and now I'm panicking.

As a toddler she started out very precocious and driven and was amazing everyone with the things she learned on her own and the drive for wanting to learn new things. Around the time she entered pre-k a year early as a 3 yo she started to really slow down and so I began to question her giftedness.

Last year in kindergarten she just seemed to blend in with everyone else except in reading where she is clearly advanced. They primarily focused on reading and writing and she did well except her teacher commented at how she has frustration at times when it comes to her writing output. She can't seem to work the pencil at the same pace as her brain but that it would come eventually. They did very little math (ipad games of 1+3, etc.. at center time) At circle time she would actually turn her back to the class (when the teacher would be teaching something) and apparently be in her own little world. She would never raise her hand, she's rather shy and timid in school. She is not a trouble maker and is a model student.

At home it's another story. She has countless temper tantrums when she gets frustrated and involves screaming, slamming doors, and stomping. She can be very explosive. But she is likewise passionate when she is happy or feeling compassion for somebody. When friends are over she often times wants to do things such as write stories, play school/teach them and they aren't interested which also causes her frustration. She also refuses to play video games or board games b/c she doesn't want to lose. Because of this she also didn't compete the first year of swim team (liked practices but didn't want to race). I finally convinced her it's okay to race and all that matters is that she does her best.

So with that said here are her WISC-IV results:

FSIQ 149 (99.9%)


Similarities 13
Vocabulary 15
Comprehension 14
VCI
124 (95%)


Block Design 17
Matrix Reasoning 19
Picture Concepts 19
PRI
151 (>99.9%)


Digit Span 19
Letter/Numb Seq 15
WMI
141 (99.7%)


Coding 10
Symbol Search 14
PSI
112 (79%)

*Extended norms were used for Matrix Reasoning, Picture Concepts, and Digit Span.


The psychologists remarks during testing were that if she was watched directly my dd would give impulsive responses. But if she pretended to be busy on her laptop dd would perform better and put more thought into her answers. She was shy and took time to draw her out even after the get to know her session which makes me wonder if the verbal portion may have been given first.

Her recommendations are that she move to 2nd grade for math and /or reading. We had a meeting with the teacher but didn't have the official report yet so we didn't give actual numbers. Just said that the psych recommended she move for math and reading. The teacher said that the school doesn't do this (which isn't the norm for the district b/c I have been in schools where younger kids move up for math but we are at a magnet and I guess they can do things how they want). The teacher said she will differentiate for her in the classroom with math using Sunshine Math. She commented how she had a boy last year that she did this for who is now in the gifted program for 2nd grade.

My only concern is that dd will not do more than what is asked, I don't think she wants to stand out from her peer group in the classroom. She will just blend in and fly under the radar. At home she has told me that she wants to do reports... she has told me this past summer without me ever mentioning skipping that she wants to go to 2nd grade instead of 1st. So I feel she is unhappy to some extent where she is at. And I think it shows now that school is back in session and the tantrums have increased in addition to her night terrors, sleep walking and nightmares.

Should I be concerned about the gap between her VCI and her PRI?

And finally do you think I should present the results to the teacher and/or school to show them her ability? Or should I wait and see what the teacher's plan for differentiation will be?


*Oh, and a question about the extended norms.... I understand that means she hit the ceilings on those subtests. But does the score of 19 mean that her score for those subtests were possibly 18 and went up to 19? Or that it is higher than 19 with the extended norms but still only written down as 19? I hope that question makes sense.

First off, take a deep breath; there is no need to panic. Your kiddo is still the same delightful, bright, sometimes explosive child she was before these numbers. You just have some more data that will help you in planning your kiddo's education. Second, when you have time, apply to DYS. Third, random thoughts:

Your story is similar to my kiddo's. Have you considered skipping first grade altogether? With scores as high as your DD's, even if they allowed her to go up one subject, it may not be enough, and it certainly won't be enough for her when she's bsack with the rest of the 1st graders for the rest of the day. We found that even skipping first wasn't quite enough, because our kiddo learned faster and still needed differentiation. It was easier for the 2nd grade teachers to differentiate.

I would contact the school. We had luck contacing the gifted coordinator and the school psychologist, because they understood how out there the numbers were. The school then did further testing on their own, including achievement testing. It took them seeing our son's MAP results to believe he was out there and needed to skip 1st. Tests like MAP are great because the school can compare your kiddo's scores with similar kids and hopefully place her with kids at her level.

Check out the Iowa Acceleration Scale, and ask the school if they use that. It has several objective sections to determine if a skip is appropriate.

I have to go now, but I'll try to check back with more resources.... good luck! And be prepared for a lot of advocacy. Try to remember to keep the school on your side - this is a team effort.

ETA - I'll let those more knowledgeable about testing answer your other questions. IBut think you are lucky you found a tester who figured out how to work with your kiddo!

Re your extended norm question, take a look at the Wisc-IV Technical report #7
http://www.pearsonassessments.com/N...C-8E4A114F7E1F/0/WISCIV_TechReport_7.pdf
Typically, 19 is the top scaled score for each subtest. The report says that it maybe appropriate to consider extended norms for some 18s (not sure when this applies).
Did your psychologist give you the raw subtest scores? If he/she did then you can use the report to figure out how far beyond 19 your kid goes.

You shouldn't be concerned about the gap between VCI and PRI. The tantrums, perfectionism, etc. are not unusual for the highly gifted.

Sunshine Math will probably be insufficient for your daughter-- it's fairly small amounts of problem solving that aren't very difficult, and teachers tend to use it to stuff children in the corner with worksheets. What your daughter most likely needs is to be taught to her proper level of understanding and ability, not taught based on her age with some extra worksheets. In other words, if she's mastered single-digit addition, no amount of single-digit addition with extra worksheets is appropriate.

Did the tester also calculate a GAI? If so it would be even higher than the FSIQ, so might help in advocacy.

My DD is the exact same way. It's beyond frustrating and I have no idea what to do about it. I think it's a combo of wanting to fit in and being afraid that if she attempts more challenging work that she might fail. So no suggestions here, just sympathy. Oh, and if she's a kid who's content to fly under the radar you should probably bring up the results to the school sooner rather than later because chances are the teacher will end up underestimating her ability. Honestly, whatever the teacher has planned for differentiation it is likely it won't be sufficient for your DD. The fact that you are seeing an increase in tantrums and sleep issues tells me she is probably frustrated in school. Is she the sort of kid who will tell you what's on her mind? If so, I would ask her how she feels about school and see what she says. It sounds like some changes need to be made at school asap so things don't deteriorate further. Would the school consider a grade skip?

Just noticed that your GT program starts in second. I would think that would be a good fit for your DD this year. Get on your advocacy hat!

I wouldn't worry about the gap in VIQ vs PRI, but I would watch the written output challenges given her relatively "low" coding score. Our ds has the same type of spread in coding, had frustration with slow written output at school in K/1 *and* had some pretty severe tantruming, stomping of feet, etc at home in K/1 while being a model student at school. We didn't make any connections until 2nd grade when the written output demands increased significantly and ultimately we discovered through a full neuropsych eval that he is dysgraphic.

Re school for this year, I'd think through what you want for your dd (grade skip, differentiation, etc) and then take the report to the school and advocate for it.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Sorry to keep randomly commenting! But I thought of something else. Your kid sounds a lot like mine, not wanting to stick out. I think in some ways this makes advocacy a bit harder, as the teachers do not always see what your kid can do. Testing becomes much more important then. Unfortunately, most people are unfamiliar with those really high IQ scores and what it means, so you'll have to work with the schools to get some testing with tests they are familiar with. When they can see how "out there" your kiddo is based on their own tests, they will hopefully start to make exceptions. Even though you see scores like these on this particular board, do not mistake them for being common - they are very unusual.

Also, remember to keep in mind that you're going for the "least-worst" education fit for your kiddo. And you're lucky to know early on that your kiddo's needs are unusual. Sometimes school situations with kids like these only work out for a while --maybe a year, maybe six months. Hopefully longer, but you never know. You'll have to keep an eye out for your "not wanting to stand out kid" to see how things are going based on what you know about her. And you may want to start researching all the school options in your area or in reasonable driving distance. Are there any schools for HG kids? Can you homeschool or partial homeschool if necessary? (Homeschooling, if possible, is a nice thing to have in your back pocket - it makes advocacy easier if it's an option, as you don't think you have no other choices.)

You sound like you followed my daughter around when she was 6 and wrote about her... lol... they're SO much alike.

Good for you for getting her tested. I didn't - my own gifted experience resulted in childhood isolation (I was never accelerated or placed in a gifted program) - so instead I tried to "normalize" my daughter (enrolled her in sports, arts, etc). Not to say that this was totally bad - being well rounded never hurts a person - but by the time she got to school she'd mastered the "chameleon" strategy of hiding her gifts (except for math - she can't resist - she adores it too much ) Meanwhile I heard over and over and over again (and again, lol) from her teachers that she had trouble focusing, trouble paying attention, trouble finishing her work, etc etc. Head in the clouds, needs constant reminders, on and on. She's in French Immersion at least so it wasn't a total cakewalk - she has to at least pay attention to that.

Anyway, I think you're off to a great start. Don't panic. Speaking as a HG person myself, the most important thing you can provide for her (which my parents provided for me) is unconditional love and support Am I as far ahead in life as I would have been if I'd been accelerated? No. Have I reached my full potential? No. Am I well adjusted and happy? Yes.

Carry on with your efforts - but take a moment to relax and calm the worry. It'll all be fine. You'll see

Many gifted students "Dumb down" to fit in, especially in early ages when fitting in is more important to them. Feeling they need to do so itself can be frustrating.

Extra work or worksheets that simply reinforce math facts or crossword searches on the topic one has already mastered is also frustrating. We most often refer to them in our household as "Busy work" teachers give advanced students to keep them busy while they teach down the center line. We once had at the start of the next school year a teacher who want to start the "Math facts" system (Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division timed tests) all over again even if the students had already mastered them "Just to make sure." (and we "Made sure" that didn't happen)

Reinforce with your child that it's okay to be different than others, in fact, that's what makes life interesting. Explain that everyone has their strengths and challenges, they're just different for everyone. It's okay to stand out and there are lots of very smart people in the world and there is room and appreciation for all of them.

You might also look for positive ways to let frustration out. Plenty of exercise certainly made a difference for our eldest DS in that manner.