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    Joined: Sep 2007
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    2-3 hours a day of sit-down schoolwork is what we usually do, though the day is full of learning opportunities and extracurriculars, as well as time to play.

    Sometimes less really is more! smile


    Kriston
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    My dd8 (she just had a birthday!) spends 8 hours at school (7 regular hours plus one elective class after school). Out of the seven she has 1 hour of math, 1 hour of Language arts and 1 1/4 hour of recess/lunch every day. The rest of the day is what I would like to call extracurriculars (art, science, music, spanish, drama, etc.). She elects to take that extra hour at the end of the day. Most of the time she signs up for art. Right now is is taking a digital photography class where the art teacher is combining photography with oil, charcoal and water painting. She also taking a science class called "making six different kids of slime".

    My point is that school doesn't have to be boring or hard or too long. If your child is in the right environment 7 hours go by fast. If a child is in an environment that is toxic (not challenged, bullied, bored, etc) even 2 hours is too much.

    I know I have become sort of a cheerleader for my dd school. I just see that whatever they are doing, it is working and wish every child (gifted or not) had the opportunity to have as perfect a fit as my dd has right now. It pains me to see that unfortunately she is in the minority by far. Schools like hers are few and far between. I love the fact that it is such a small school, on the other hand that means they can only serve a very small amount of kids (278 total in grades 1-8).

    I specially love upper school. My favorite is LEAP wed when children get to decide how they spend their day. This year some children formed a band with the music teacher, they can spend all day taking art or science or working with a mentor in math.

    Going back to the math curriculum. This school offers classes all the way to calculus for the "mathy" kids and has a national champions mathcounts team.

    This kind of learning environment is what every child deserves and should be getting. It is a crime that the school system is not set up in a way that high potential can be nourished. After all, the potential return on the investment should make it worth it.




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    bianc850a - I wish DS could go to your DD's school! Lucky DD! btw, in a 6 hr. 20 minute day, DS gets 20 minutes of lunch followed by 20 minutes of recess. I have no idea how long they spend on any one subject each day, and on Mondays, they don't have reading - at all!

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    Dottie,

    Are you sure you cannot be convinced to move to the west coast? We have a family that moved from Korea!

    My point is that there should be one school like my dd's school in every town. I have tried to talk Dottie into starting her own in her living room grin

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    Val Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    But WHAT is different? Can you give me a specific example? HOW are they making it conceptual? To be honest, what it sounds like is that they just aren't doing much teaching at all, either of tools or of concepts. Navel-gazing isn't teaching, and that's the impression I'm getting of it (albeit perhaps wrongly).

    I don't call word problems conceptual (and those have always been around anyway). Is there more to it than that?

    Hi Kriston,

    My sons' school uses a spiral system called Everyday Mathematics (EM). These systems are called "Reform Mathemathics." I wrote a letter to the school detailing my ideas about EM's weaknesses. I used specific examples from the books. If anyone wants a copy, PM me and I'll send it.

    Overall, EM has a "spiral" approach that spins from one topic to the next. So in 1st grade they do, say, classical addition for a few days and move to learning shapes. Then they go on "numeracy" which is taught using a grid that looks like a calendar and goes from 1 to 100. Etc. etc. They evertually work back to slightly more advanced classical addition problems and the spiral starts again.

    EM books are wordy and include exercises that ask kids to cut pictures of triangles out of magazines or write the name of the presidents and mottos on various coins.

    They have a limited number of numerical operations. This increased in the 2nd grade book, but all the problems in the 1st half were 1st grade level from what I could tell (entire pages of 8+4, 11+8 etc).


    Critics argue that reform maths systems are superficial and that they don't allow ideas to sink in. Many originally relied heavily on calculators, even in 1st grade. I think the resulting uproar *may* have killed the worst of the calculator stuff. I'm not sure; my kids' school just skips the calculator stuff.

    Google "Math wars" and you'll see what I mean.

    My feeling is that the Reform systems are a swing of the pendulum in the opposite direction from too much rote drilling.

    ALso, EM has a lot of exercises that look mathematical on the surface but really aren't. For example, in grade 1, they cut out a ruler and measure 3 things at home. When they hand in the homework, the teacher has *no way of knowing if the measurements are accurate*. Sure, the parents should have helped, but what if they didn't for some reason or didn't pay close attention?

    Why can't the book just draw a few lines and get the kids to measure the lines? If the goal is to teach them how to measure something, there has to be a way to *assess learning*.

    One of my biggest problems with EM was the number grid approach to addition. This is a twist on counting on a number line, and kids are supposed to "hop" "forward" to add and "backward" to subtract.

    The grid has 10 row of 10 numbers from 1 to 100 (no zero). Because it starts at 1, 10 is on the same line as 1-9 and 20 is on the same line as 11-19, etc. This approach completely fails to show kids that 10, 20, etc. begin new groups of ten. And of course, 100 is on the same line as 91-99.

    Also, I'm not sure why moving across a grid and then down a row to add, say, 8+3, is a better way to teach addition than just using a pile of bingo chips or drawing some circles. Ditto for subtraction, which is less intuitive than addition and requires that you start with a pile of bingo chips (or whatever) and then take something away.

    Also, the grid forces kids to count by ones to add and doesn't TEACH the idea of addition. I think the idea is let them figure it oiut for themselves. But the system is too complicated and many kids can't see the forest for the trees.

    EM makes an assumption that children can understand certain concepts intuitively when they can't. Moving backwards and up a row to do 11-3 is NOT intuitive the way that watching a pile get smaller is.

    So overall, these systems can look attractive to people weary of drill and kill. But they are deceptive and close inspection shows their weaknesses.

    Hope that answers your question?

    Val

    Last edited by Val; 04/09/08 09:58 AM.
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    Originally Posted by incogneato
    Math wars hee hee hee

    Please tell me people arent' going to war over this stuff!

    You would not believe the uproard in some areas.

    http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/

    Val

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    Okay, sorry to come in so late to all of this! I was teaching yesterday and then had to get my slides ready for a presentation on Friday.

    Val

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    You know when I was a teenager I thought my dad was the biggest idiot in the world. He used to say all kinds of cliche simpleisms like: "Moderation is the key". As I have grown into an adult I realize my dad isn't a simpleton. smile
    He's simply brilliant.
    Such a simple phrase applies beautifully to almost any situation, almost all times.
    I will say I think reform math is actually more intuitive to a certain type of person, but it's not a great learning style for all people, at all times. Also, sometimes you have to use memorization. I think a good teacher is flexible and good at assessing differnt learning styles in the kids. That's the kind of teacher I hope for when my kids are in school.
    And while I'm the first person to say drill and kill is bad for gifted kids, I also think some of the most important scientific breakthroughs have resulted from long, tedious and repetitive processes.
    I'm for balance and moderation.

    Neato

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    I agree 100%, 'Neato! Variety in teaching styles and methods is so key! Teachers who don't understand that scare me a little...


    Kriston
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    Variety is the #1 thing for us too. We mix concepts and practice as a rule.

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