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    #133620 - 07/09/12 02:38 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: Dbat]
    Dbat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/12
    Posts: 353
    Thanks, LaTexican!!
    I'll use that next time it comes up--much better to have DD fighting
    'the establishment' than me!!
    Best wishes,
    Dbat

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    #133627 - 07/09/12 02:58 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: La Texican]
    deacongirl Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/03/10
    Posts: 948
    I think there are absolutely excellent reasons for teenagers to delay having sex aside from potential pregnancy and STDs. I think in general it is emotionally healthier to wait. And given, at least for many girls I knew in high school and college, and that at least in some places this hasn't changed, the shame/stigma for the girl who chooses to have sex with someone she doesn't intend to marry, keeps girls in bad relationships that they wouldn't otherwise stay in. I think it can be beautiful and healthy in a committed relationship with 2 mature people, but I just don't think most high school kids are mature enough to choose wisely.
    edited to add this link that I thought was relevant when talking to daughers:
    http://rosalindwiseman.com/2010/03/02/is-hooking-up-good-for-girls/


    Edited by deacongirl (07/09/12 03:01 PM)

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    #133628 - 07/09/12 03:03 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: deacongirl]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: deacongirl
    I think it can be beautiful and healthy in a committed relationship with 2 mature people, but I just don't think most high school kids are mature enough to choose wisely.


    Uh, you have to be married to avoid the criminal code in some states. Well, unless you aren't living together.

    Behold, I give you NC General Statue Section 14-184:

    "If any man and woman, not being married to each other, shall lewdly and lasciviously associate, bed and cohabit together, they shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor: Provided, that the admissions or confessions of one shall not be received in evidence against the other."

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/statutes/statutelookup.pl?statute=14-184

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    #133629 - 07/09/12 03:07 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: Dbat]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Last attempted enforcement?

    2006.

    "As reported earlier, the case arose when the Sheriff of Pender County hired an unmarried woman, Deborah Lynn Hobbs, as a police dispatcher. About two weeks after she was hired, the Sheriff learned that Ms. Hobbs was unmarried and had lived with her boyfriend for nine years. Charged with enforcing the laws of the State of North Carolina, Sheriff Carson Smith informed Ms. Hobbs that she was living in violation of North Carolina’s cohabitation law and that she must marry her partner, move out of their common home, or leave the employment of the Sheriff’s office. Sheriff Smith did not bring charges, nor did he threaten to do so, under N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-184. Ms. Hobbs chose to leave her job and then filed suit seeking both declaratory and injunctive relief from North Carolina’s cohabitation law."

    http://www.ncfamily.org/stories/060914s1.html

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    #133632 - 07/09/12 03:24 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: Dbat]
    AlexsMom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/01/10
    Posts: 741
    Originally Posted By: Dbat
    no, you are a girl so you can't go topless (except in certain places like some beaches usually outside the US) whereas boys and men can because...(generally see (1), NOT that I am arguing in favor of this, just--how does one distinguish in a principled manner between requiring women to wear some kind of top (even a bikini top or sports bra) versus having to wear a head scarf or body covering in other societies)?


    IMHO, you don't. There are plenty of places where topless women are equally acceptable (or unacceptable) as topless men. A hundred years ago, a topless man would have been considered obscene.

    Certainly there's no principled (or even logic-based) argument for not letting a prepubescent 8yo go topless. Whereas I can think of many aesthetic arguments for requiring overweight men to keep a shirt on whenever an adult woman would be expected to wear one. *shudder*

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    #133635 - 07/09/12 04:15 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: AlexsMom]
    Evemomma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/17/12
    Posts: 451
    Originally Posted By: Alexsmom
    Certainly there's no principled (or even logic-based) argument for not letting a prepubescent 8yo go topless. Whereas I can think of many aesthetic arguments for requiring overweight men to keep a shirt on whenever an adult woman would be expected to wear one. *shudder*


    As sick as it is...there are men/boys who would probably find a topless prepubescent girl sexually arousing. Not that they wouldn't be much more phased by a bathing-suited girl...but it's a makes me shiver to consider.


    Edited by Evemomma (07/09/12 04:16 PM)

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    #133636 - 07/09/12 04:24 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: Dbat]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    At first I saw only the first part "how to discuss gender" and thought LGBT.  I have close family who are (in another state) and while they are a few token ones here they're treated like a spectical and the backwards thinking on it here is embarrassing to me and I'm going to have to talk to my kids about this as soon as they notice.  Here's something about that from the  AARP website.  http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/rights/info-07-2010/defense_of_marriage_act.html.   

    ATM my oldest is still on, "how do girls pee if they don't have a pee-pee.". I've showed him the picture about plumbing in "It's not the Stork".  I've tried to tell him it's like a butt, but, obviously, we have butt cheeks, so, awkward.  Yeah, by butt I must mean butt cheeks and girls don't have two sets of those. I guess that's why he keeps asking along those lines even though I answered honestly and got the book to show him.  He did tell me after the episode of Sid the Science Kid about water systems that "my pee-pee's like a pipe".  I have tried to tell him that every sentence can't lead back to "butt" "pee-pee" and "fart".  He's got a talent.
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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    #133637 - 07/09/12 04:45 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: Evemomma]
    AlexsMom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/01/10
    Posts: 741
    Originally Posted By: Evemomma
    there are men/boys who would probably find a topless prepubescent girl sexually arousing.


    Rule 34: if it exists, there's porn about it.

    If my kid wanted to go topless, and I was concerned that some man might be uncontrollably overcome with lust at the sight of a topless prepubescent girl, I'd suggest she wear swim trunks. Plenty of long haired topless little boys running around the pool. No one would ever be attracted to a topless prepubescent boy, right? (And if someone would, why is that boy topless?)

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    #133640 - 07/09/12 04:58 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: Dbat]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3423
    Quote:
    ) There are gender inequalities in part because we are mammals, and still in some parts of our brains are driven to act like animals in the wild


    I wouldn't use this argument myself. I think it could apear to rationalize the behavior far too much. The nuance may be lost.

    I'd also ask if anyone would use this same argument about racism or other -isms. I doubt it.


    Edited by ultramarina (07/09/12 05:53 PM)

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    #133641 - 07/09/12 05:36 PM Re: How to discuss gender inequalities [Re: ultramarina]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: ultramarina
    I'd also ask if anyone would use this same argument about racism or other -isms. I doubt it.


    Well, it doesn't work for racism because racism is directed toward a cosmetic aspect of the human mammal rather than a core biological function of life.

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