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    Joined: Feb 2008
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    This seems so odd to me; I'm not sure what, if anything, to do about it. Here's the scenario: this is about DS5, my neglected one who doesn't seem to have the issues of his sibs. He just turned 5, and is in a pre-K montessori classroom, which we have been happy with. He'll continue with the same teacher/classroom for K. His sibs have some 2E types of issues (visual/auditory/sensory processing, fine motor, etc.; both are strongly visual-spatial). I don't see the same issues in DS5. I think he's more balanced between left and right brained learning. DS5 has never been tested for IQ or these other issues. He's bright, but I have no reason to suspect HG.

    Anyway, we had our teacher conference the other day. Her primary comment is that she believes he is underachieving relative to his abilities (it strikes me as at least a little bit funny to be discussing underachievement re: preschool; but then at our last conference last fall she thought he had already met her minimum requirements for starting K). She stressed that he is not behind at all (for grade level) but that she believes he's capable of much more. He prefers to choose easy work in class, and she's been making him do harder things. She believes he's afraid to make mistakes, that he has a self-confidence problem academically (he also hates to ask for help). She also thinks he's been concentrating on developing social relationships this year, having made a lot of new buddies. She is confident that next year in K this will work itself out due to the combination of weekly goal sheets and peer pressure from a group of boys in the class, including his best buddy, who are "bright", "very bright" and "amazing". She thinks if there wasn't such a group of bright kids he'd sink down to a mediocre level.

    Neither his teacher nor I think he has any learning issues - he's been checked by a behavioral optometrist twice for vision, and he is capable of sounding out words far better than his sibs so I doubt he has a significant auditory-processing thing going on. I have had in the back of my mind that I might want to do private IQ testing (like we did for his sister, when we discovered all her issues), but I was planning to do that in about a year, toward the end of K, primarily to be certain he doesn't have his sibs' issues. I feel like it's too early right now. What I see at home, when I challenge him with, for example, reading, he acts like "oh no, now I have to use my brain!"...grumble grumble..."do I really have to." It's like his brain is lazy. So I haven't pushed; he's young, plenty of time, I think to myself, although I personally felt like I had quite the lazy brain in high school and college. I didn't learn to think until law school or even after. I'd hate for that to happen to him - it was such a waste. If he doesn't feel like using his brain now, is it really going to improve? What am I missing? To the extent that he's had special interests, we've tried to cultivate that (e.g. dinosaurs, getting books, going to the museum, etc.), but mostly he's just interested in boy stuff. My fear is that his fear of making mistakes, coupled with sibs who are starting to advance quickly now that their 2E issues are being addressed, will contribute to him thinking he's not capable (I should add that one of the sibs is a twin brother who, in spite of major issues - IEP for speech and fine motor -is much further ahead of DS in math).

    So, should I not worry about this "underachievement", like the teacher says? Does it sound like it's just a natural phase in development? Or, should I think about doing testing much sooner than I had planned? I really don't think he's under-challenged at school except to the extent that he's under-challenging himself, and maybe that's the rub of the montessori program, that he has so much choice, at least during preschool. I know his teacher really wants to stretch him without making him hate school, so she feels she's walking a fine line when she makes him do more challenging works. She said just the other day she made him do some math, which he has been avoiding, and he did it well and apparently enjoyed it, but he doesn't choose that stuff on his own. Could it be that she needs to make him try really hard things (harder than she has been), to make him think, or might he just shut down completely (he's got quite the scowl pose, arms folded, big pout). I just don't know. I am very thankful that she identified the issue - she's a veteran teacher with more than 20 yrs experience, and for the most part she's kinda strict in how she operates with parents, so I would not necessarily have expected her to see it. As it turns out, she prides herself on knowing her students very, very well. But, I'm guessing there's only so much I could ask for if I wanted her to change her approach (not that I even have any thoughts in that direction).

    I was hoping that by writing this out I wouldn't actually have to post it, that I'd come to some sort of conclusion just by having written it out, as sometimes happens. Alas, it hasn't happened. Thoughts? Should I just let him be? Or am I letting him waste his brain? Thanks a million!!
    smile

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    Originally Posted by snowgirl
    He prefers to choose easy work in class, and she's been making him do harder things. She believes he's afraid to make mistakes, that he has a self-confidence problem academically (he also hates to ask for help).

    Could he be a perfectionist? These would be typical signs. DS5 definitely has problems with perfectionism. Things are pretty ok right now, but I am sure it will show up again.

    I suggest reading Freeing Our Families from Perfectionism by Thomas Greenspon.

    IQ test down the line may be a helpful too, but it's probably not necessary right now. It would be nice to know what to expect though.


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    It sounds like your son has an awesome teacher, consider yourself lucky! smile

    It sounds like she is on the ball and if you agree with what she is saying (does it "sound" right to you?) that's great, it sounds like she will continue with that.

    She said she wants to make sure he isn't turned off of school and it sounds like that's a major concern for you too.

    I'm glad she's recognized it and there is a lot of good info out there.

    Try googling perfectionism and underachivement in gifted and start exploring. There is lots of info and probably lots of it won't apply to your son, but there's some good stuff out there.

    Hope it all works out well.

    Neato

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    Thanks ladies!! I really appreciate your thoughts. I will definitely take a look at underachievement and perfectionism (we've had some perfectionism issues with the sibs too). Other than that, I guess we'll just keep taking it one day at a time.
    smile

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    I think a read through "Why Bright Kids Get Poor Grades" is worthwhile.

    I wonder what 'boy things' are, and if you can 'push' him in that direction. Example - My brother loved baseball, and turned it into a self-challenge of learning about statistics and memorising each player's stats. If you son likes computer games, try buying him a 'Game Guide' that so he can learn to use 'Reference Material.' Which boy things does he like?

    Also - My brothers are fraternal twins, and I think that the twin dynamic is a whole special topic into itself. Have you read anything in the twin literature that addresses self-image and twins that could be useful here? Pretend for a second that they are a long-time married couple - what would you think of the dynamic then? Not a perfect analogy, but as close as us non-twins can get.

    Best Wishes,
    Grinity


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    Thanks J and Grinity. I think for now I just need to spend more time with him one on one at home, reading together. We did that this past week, and we did make a little bit of progress - but I'm finding that I don't know anything about teaching to read phonetically since my other two were/are learning by sight words. In the books he wants me to read with him, too few of the words can be sounded out with simple phonics, which is frustrating for him because he's actually been trying it when I'm not looking. So I guess he needs to build a sight word vocabulary. But mostly, I want him to understand that it's ok to make the mistakes that are inherent to that learning process - and he has been a little more willing to. As for the twin angle, that's sure to come up since DS is used to being ahead of his brother in terms of general development, while academically it's starting to reverse. This past week, his brother and I have been reading The Piano Book (we're buying a piano; he keeps requesting this nonfiction book as his bedtime story lol), and he's been memorizing a ton of sight words, which has been kind of hilarious (from "of" and "you" to "Chinese" and "strings"). DS has watched this, and I'm not sure if the peer pressure is helpful or hurtful. Also on the upside, he's been trying to add bigger numbers and is finding success.

    As for boy things, LOL, I just meant that he's all boy - into agressive wrestling with his (weaker) brother, poking and provoking physical conflict, cars, trains, etc. I'll keep my eye out for angles to cultivate - thanks for the baseball tip. Right now I think he's a tad disappointed that I don't know the names of all the dinosaurs (and again, not so easy for sounding out).

    And yes, I think we'll wait on testing. He may change a lot in the next year anyway, and I think some of that development might ultimately affect his IQ score.

    I really appreciate all your thoughts!!
    smile

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    For reading, I liked "The Reading Lesson" it's cheap lol and is phonetic. With that, I like BOB Books. So many of the readers, even level I readers, have non-decodable words are advanced words.

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    I liked the Bob Books too. Another set that both my girls used when they were learning phonetic reading is Now I'm Reading! for Beginning Readers written by Nora Gaydos. I used these books in conjunction with a set of Dick and Jane books that someone gave us to teach my youngest to read. The combination of phonetics and whole reading (Dick & Jane) was a nice balance for my dd. I was surprised because I did not have high expectations for the Dick & Jane books, but my dd insisted upon reading them.

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    Originally Posted by snowgirl
    ...I'm finding that I don't know anything about teaching to read phonetically since my other two were/are learning by sight words.:)

    I use/used two approaches when teaching my kids to read:

    1. Teach sounds of letters including short vowel sounds (they got this at daycare and from Daddy).

    2. Start with little lists of words (cat, sat, hop, tub, etc.)

    3. Teach reading through spelling. They all started writing on their own and then I enocouraged them. In fact, my youngest is having a tantrum outside the door right now because I won't let her in so she can type words (she was pounding on my photocopier and so I booted her OUT!).

    4. Have you tried Bob books? They're the best introductory readers that I've found. They come in 5 little boxed sets of increasing difficulty.

    5. Move to easy consonant combinations (st, tr, etc as opposed to sh, th, etc that aren't so intuitive). Stop, fast, trap, etc.

    6. Introduce new non-intuitive ideas slowly so as not to overwhelm. If your child's name ends in -y, "y sounding like e at the end of a word" is a good first choice. Alternatively, any non-intuitive combination in the child's name is a good place to start if there is no -y ending (Amy, Sandy, etc).

    7. Introduce silent e (game, name, hope) once the child is very good at short words. I did NOT wait until they had learned all the consonant combinations but introduced when I felt the kids were ready. I found that using examples like hop/hope, not/note etc. helps make the picture clear. Silent e takes time. My kids started by reading n-o-t....oh wait, nOTE.

    Hope that helps. This is just an overview, but I hope it will give some guidance.

    Val

    Last edited by Val; 04/12/08 03:10 PM.
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    Wow thanks for all the suggestions! I'll definitely be trying them. We have had the Bob books for almost a year, and I've had to bribe him to actually read them, so I dropped them for a long time (that's part of what had me concerned about him this year - simple ones he was able to read to me last August he was no longer willing to do). I'll pull them out again to see if he has any interest (not holding my breath...). He'd rather I read Magic Treehouse aloud to him, with him reading a couple of words per page - he's into adventure stories. He also loves Henry and Mudge, but I realized that I must have more than one level of them - very little to sound out in the last two we read. I guess there's a big disconnect between the content he's looking for and his ability level. I think I'll keep trying to tempt him with more words in the books that he wants to read. I really, really appreciate all the phonics tips, and I'll definitely look into those other books - thanks ladies!!! I'm getting the feeling that this is one of those things that will take some patience and perserverence - mostly, one on one time (which tends to be in short supply, and will be in even shorter supply this summer with our last baby arriving soon). I'm hoping that once he gets to a certain level (like maybe in a year), he'll be more willing to struggle on his own a bit in order to read the books he wants. At least he's still asking me to read with him; guess I should be thankful for that.
    smile


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