Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Systematic Desensitization over summer break?

I just wanted to hop on here and thank the the OP and all that have replied and advised on this thread. My son has anxiety and is similar to your DD where those sticker chart type behavioral controls cause him great anxiety to the point where he completely detoriates and has OCD symptoms. I thought I was the only one with a kid like this!!! For example, his first year in public school (kindy) last year he had a paraprofessional (the kids broke into three groups each day to do reading and fine motor tasks with a paraprofessional leading each group) who triggered his anxiety so acutely he became completely unable to swallow his salivia. He has this fear of something "disgusting, bad or dangerous" going into his body. he usually keeps this fear under control but when he had to work with this parapriofessional (who shamed him, was completely inflexible, etc) he became so anxious he really had trouble swallowing. Then, in order to force him to work with the said assistant the school psych instituted some sort of sticker reward chart and he deteriorated completely! He couldn't swallow at all - his throat was sore from being unable to swallow and his lips were all chapped form him pushing the salvia out of his mouth on to his lips and then wiping the salivia away with his sleeve. His tops were soaked from his salvia! it was truly shocking He had to carry a couple of handkerchiefs to wipe away his salavia. it was awful. I eventually flipped out a bit on them and insisted they move him to a different group run by a different assistant and he recovered and had a great 2nd half of the year. Since then we got an anxiety diagnosis. we are planning to institue an IEP for next year (I just cannot have him go through that and deteriorate like that again). But all of this is very helpful background info for the upcoming IEP meeting. I *pretty* sure our district will work well with us - they are supposedly a very good district for special needs, accomodations, etc... but we'll see. And this is my first experience with any type of IEP so... Anyway, the info here is great. And it is comforting to knwo that other kids have this problem! I plan now to record our IEP meeting(s) as well. I am nervous b/c the psych running the show for meeting (I think) is the same psych who crafted and instituted the 'sticker reward chart' that really just destroyed my DS. I am hoping I don't have too much trouble with her! I have to admit, I have a bit of a bias aganst her and am wary of her and I really didn't like how she handled the situation with my son last year. But that was before they knew he had an anxiety disorder and before a diagnosis.

Understand you want the best for you daughter and did not want to hurt your feelings, just wanted to question if the teacher wanted to move up with your daughter or if you were trying to have her moved- it was not clear. If she wants to move, they should let her of course, but if not, she should not be pushed to.

With regards to the color chart, yes, there are other methods, but the teacher will need some sort of classroom management system in place. No one system works for every child and anything new would be trial and error. No one wants your daughter to have a bad year, but the teacher will also have to do what works best for the majority of the kids.

Apologize if my previous post was harsh- rereading it, yes, it sounds that way. I just am hoping that in asking the school to be flexible, you too will be- and understand that all the children need to be served and while hopefully you will get a lot of what you want, it is not realistic to expect everything.

Suggesting a para was not meant to be an insult, but rather a possible solution. Paras can do wonders for a child by working one to one with them, taking them for walks in the hallway to calm down etc.

So far today I spoke to new DSS to hear what principal is proposing, met with a special ed attorney and spoke to asst superintendent filling in for the real one who is on medical leave. Frankly I have to wonder if I am totally losing my mind. This really, truly cannot be happening...

So the principal is reassigning a 6th grade teacher to 2nd grade and wants to place DD in her classroom rather than with one of the returning 2nd grade teachers. So yes, she is in fact reassigning a teacher for DD - just refusing for it to be the one who has already proven to have a classroom style that works for DD and who has already gotten to know how to read DD's signs of anxiety. (And Amob whether or not the first grade teacher has asked to be reassigned is basically a moot point. She made clear that she is not expecting to return to 1st grade next year and had no idea as of the beginning of June "what they are going to do with me.") Principal told the new DSS that this teacher will be using a "responsive classroom" along with a color chart. I pushed and said that my understanding of the responsive classroom is that you utilize positive reinforcement and logical consequences. A color chart does not belong in the mix. In fact I read one article on a Responsive Classroom website that is entitled "Beware the Color Chart." At this point her wording changed to "a responsive type classroom".

She said her color chart would be a bee hive shape and would use a system called "Positive Bee-havior" where kids would get moved to the yellow and then red hives. So, it's a color chart. A cute shape, a cute name but still the same public shaming device we have been arguing about. She would also use the "rest stop" part of responsive classroom by sending the children to a chair as punishment. I asked if this would be a specific punishment chair or back to their own seat and she did not know. If it is actually a punishment seat this is even worse than the system at AIM that triggered the whole situation.

Since the principal is insisting on the color chart new DSS is back to pushing for systematic desensitization over the summer. What? Didn't we agree last week that it wasn't reasonable to try to put this together over the summer and we needed to do it in conjunction with a proper classroom placement - not instead of it?

She was supposedly going to contact the superintendent to have her deal with us directly since I told her that when I and our consultant tried we never got anywhere. Instead I just got a call - and the third degree - from asst superintendent. My story doesn't change, my request doesn't change. I am just trying to prevent a full blown school anxiety issue. Period. I am not asking for anything different than what we asked for last year and my reasons haven't changed. I am all for desensitizing her but in conjunction with an appropriate placement - not instead of one. Really - it's just that simple. If you wanted to be able to put her in a classroom without making this accommodation you should have prepared her for it. You had an entire year with the SW working with her weekly. You didn't even try it. You didn't even TRY. You also timed this to blindside us so we couldn't even TRY to work with the new teacher to come up with a mutually agreeable plan. Don't you get it???? AARRRGGG!!!!


Attorney sees this EXACTLY as I see it and says it is just plain silly. Why on earth would the principal be doing this over something as ridiculous as a color chart? Her ego and her anger at us for going over her head. She didn't say but I assume also embarrassment over the letter about her violating the IEP. Attorney said "everything with special ed comes down to either money or ego. In this case it is ego." She cannot understand why the district is allowing this principal to behave this way. She suggests going to the superintendent and asking directly "Can you really justify to the school board that you are paying $3k-$4k in legal fees rather than make a change that costs NOTHING?"

Please tell me if I am still the sane, rational person I have tried to be. This really just makes no sense...

Thanks MON. Your school's system sounds wonderful - exactly what DD would need. I have come to realize that most of this really comes back to the Principal's attitude. She is a former librarian and wants total silence and strict discipline. She uses terms without really understanding them and no one has really held her accountable for misrepresenting her programs. If she tells central office she is using a program called "positive" something they accept it at face value. If a parent complains they respond that the school is using a "positive" program. No one has ever really challenged her so fully before. So she is angry, her ego is bruised and she is looking for ways to retaliate. I have no choice though - if I don't push back the effect for DD will be disastrous. No - not just being dramatic. Her initial school experience at AIM was that bad...

So yesterday ended with a call from asst superintendent saying that the district is calling a meeting - where THEY will pay MY consultant - to meet with princpal and new DSS to see if they can come up with a plan for next year. As someone I told put it - they can't control their own principal so they are bringing in MY consultant to do it for them.

Yes, focus on a positive behavior system. If only they could understand this I think we would not have any of these issues. I mean really I can't even imagine how many hours have been spent by how many people on this already. And it really is that simple - paying attention to positive behaviors is a really good system. Why has this had to become such a battle?

Pemberley, I hope the district meeting goes well. You are doing a great job advocating for your DD-- hang in there!

DeeDee

Just off the phone with our consultant after his meeting with principal, new DSS and asst superintendent (appearing by phone). Apparently principal was "marginalized" and the higher ups are handling it. He tried to talk mostly to asst super since new DSS now seems to be siding with principal. She proposed starting the year off without a color chart and introducing one after 2 weeks. That was flatly refused - consultant told them that we will not agree to a color chart in the classroom. Period. He requested a year without it while the district provides appropriate supports so we can try to resolve some of these issues before the next year. Funny, I said the same thing, over and over again, and got rebuffed.

They are now demanding a psychiatric evaluation. They had offered to pay for one when things were at the worst but I was warned off by a neuropsych I checked with being told that few psychiatrists actually do clinical work and most would be brought in just to adjust medication. I was told bad things about the psychiatrist the district contracts with. (ALL online reviews of him gave only 1 out of 5 stars. I have never seen another practitioner with such consistently bad reviews.) Once I finally got the name of one that sounded ok my phone conversation with him consisted of him saying what medications he would start DD on - WITHOUT EVEN MEETING HER. We said no way.

I recently found a DPsy who I am comfortable with but she has not yet been approved by my insurance. No idea how long it will take for her approval to be processed. Consultant has a psychiatrist he is comfortable with who has declined to medicate in the past. District is now claiming that they "requested" this eval and we failed to cooperate. Funny, as I recall you offered by saying "no pressure - it's there if you want to do it."

So their position is that IF they agree to remove the color chart and provide support services they are sure that we will come back with additional requests later. Really? I have been telling the same story, making the same request and giving the same reason for a year now. I registered on this site last summer asking the same question. I have been interrogated by person after person from the district and have never changed my story. I submitted written requests almost 2 months ago. And they have the nerve to say that WE might change our story?

You all have been through this with me - the unilaterally not allowing her to wear a hat after agreeing at an IEP meeting, the nurse refusing to follow medication orders from our pediatrician, their violation of the IEP (including written acknowledgement from the district) and the blindside from the principal on the next to last day of school. It has been CRAZY - especially after starting out so well.

So the district has involved their attorney to review our request. I am supposed to decide about this psych eval. Any input from the parent/experts here? Right now DD is happy as a clam - loving every minute of the enrichment programs that she is doing over the summer. I told the consultant that I don't think an eval now would be appropriate - she would need to be evaluated once the school year is underway and she is being triggered (or not as the case may be.) Principal (consultant said "I am NOT impressed - I would never hire her...") thinks it should be done by September. We have a neuropsych scheduled for October already. Consultant proposed it be done by January.

At this point I just want DD in a classroom that will not freak her out but I don't want to agree or disagree to something just to make that happen. We have already decided that we will NOT cajole, insist or bribe her to be in school. If they trigger school avoidance then we will expect them to deal with it - not us. (I liken it to parents who spend a fortune providing outside tutoring only to have their child turned down for services because he is able to pass everything by the skin of his teeth. I would remove the tutoring so the school can accurately assess his performance. In this case it is our interventions that would be removed. If that makes sense...)

As always any and all input is welcome. All of this is because of the principal's ego - nothing more. The thing that gets me is that thousands upon thousands of classrooms are managed everyday with positive behavior systems - color charts and punitive actions are not essential to an elementary classroom, This principal is just wholly unqualified for the position and doesn't recognize that she is insisting on something that doesn't HAVE to be there. Jeesh... I really just can't believe it...

Yes--this is just totally ridiculous.

The main reason to have dealings with a psychiatrist is if you want meds. I am not in a position to judge whether you want meds; I know firsthand that for an anxious person an SSRI can be life-changing in a very positive way; but that is a personal decision. To me, it looks like skipping a step to arrive at meds without a thorough neuropsych workup first.

The neuropsych eval you have scheduled for October-- I assume it is a comprehensive workup?-- sounds much more appropriate to me. If they refer you to a PSYCHOLOGIST (not psychiatrist) to treat the anxiety through cognitive-behavioral means, I would absolutely go for that. (IMO talk therapy for children is far less impressive in its results.)


Why are they asking you specifically to see a psychiatrist as opposed to a psychologist? It is not part of their brief to insist that you medicate your DD. (Again, you will hear nothing against anxiety meds from me, but they are not supposed to pressure you or to recommend medications. They are not qualified to do that.)


That's not a position, that's grandstanding. Negotiating based on future hypotheticals. It sounds as though so far you haven't asked them for things that aren't in the IEP. I don't know why they would expect you to suddenly do otherwise.

Have you talked to the lawyer yet about next steps? What does the consultant say?


Is the new DSS or any of the superintendents acknowledging the prior IEP violation? You have that in writing, yes?

I think that is why I lean toward involving the lawyer; these folks are hedging, taking advantage, stalling, and evading their obligations.


Another good reason to have your own attorney involved.


If you can get on a cancellation list and do the neuropsych sooner, so you have a "summer/happy" baseline, that is not a terrible idea, as long as they are willing to see her again in the fall as a followup once school has upped the anxiety again. Otherwise, I think keep your October appointment, and you can let the district know that you feel that "we will all get sufficient information from that evaluation to make plans moving forward."


I think you are being reasonable. They are painting you as unreasonable; all the more reason to stay calm, use your experts, and stick resolutely to the key issues. You must be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, more reasonable than they are, yet also persistent.


Yes, a power struggle that became personal, with a principal who has not had sufficient training to understand what is mandated by law. Awful.

Your lawyer will advise you. If they come back at you with a color chart, I'd get the State Department of Ed on the phone ASAP as well as file a written complaint with them. And whatever else the lawyer recommends.

Your DD is entitled to a public education that meets her needs!

Hang in there.

DeeDee

Thanks dg, DeeDee and mon. To be clear I am not opposed to medication if it is needed - I am just really, REALLY uncomfortable with the idea that someone would be talking about medicating a 7 year old without even meeting her. She is not psychotic, she does not hear voices, she is not a behavior problem - she is a happy, cheerful, outgoing little girl who reacts to stimuli that remind her of a really terrible school situation. The kid I am living with now is the same one I had before she ever stepped foot in that AIM. The same kid we had for the first few months at the public before the substitute yelled and threatened and reminded her of AIM. When she does get triggered she responds by withdrawing, getting quiet and developing physical symptoms. I have been told in no uncertain terms that if she threw chairs and broke windows the school would be more than willing to provide the kind of environment needed to make her comfortable. She only got pushed to "meltdown level' a couple of times last year. Each one in response to AIM stimuli, and one leading to the IEP violation letter.

We have not yet hired the attorney - the idea was to try to get the year started relatively amicably and move to legal action only if needed. The assumption was that the superintendent would never be able to justify to the board of education spending the money to go to mediation over a color chart when the alternative is free. I assume the district is cueing up in case we pull the trigger on due process. We were going to wait to actually hire the lawyer until we saw what they do or do not agree to do with the classroom placement.

Yes we are on a cancellation list for the neuropsych but not holding out much hope. THAT one I would like to do during the summer - much more likely to get an accurate read on her when her anxiety isn't already triggered. It's a psych eval during the summer that concerns me. My current thought - and PLEASE weigh in - is to tell them that we will not submit to a psychiatric evaluation unless/until recommended by the DPsy I am comfortable with or the neuropsych. While I would love to have DD start with the DPsy now we have already spent many, many thousands of dollars on all of this - spending more on her services before insurance approves her is hard to justify. We will wait until she is approved unless the district wants to pay for her to start during the summer. If she recommends a psychiatrist no problem - we'll go. And we'll submit it through our insurance so there is no added cost to the district. If neither DPsy nor neuropsych think psychiatrist is needed then we won't put DD through it. Does this sound reasonable?

Yes Dee Dee, the IEP violation is in writing from former DSS. I think my plan to not insist, force, bribe, cajole her to be in school if she feels unsafe is probably what you are talking about MON. I will make a concerted effort to let the folk at school handle what happens in school. I was forced to be involved last year (i.e. when I saw they were doing NO differentiation) but will try my best to resist this year. For example if the homework they send home is not appropriate, or DD is reluctant - I will not force the issue. They will need to find the level, presentation style, amount, etc that works with her LD's. They have already made sure we know that enrichment is on us. They can do the rest.

Yep...pyschiatrists most often see patients in need of medications and medical management of their mental health. I have worked with some amazing child Psychs....but they are few and far between. However, their M.D. carries the most clout diagnostically. If a well-respected psych concludes that your DD's struggles are due to an impairing medical condition requiring specific intervention in her school envionment, schools listen. The trick is finding the gem among dozens and dozens of duds.