Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about the Davidson Academy’s online campus for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute
  • DITD FaceBook   DITD Twitter   DITD YouTube
    The Davidson Institute is on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube!

    How gifted-friendly is
    your state?

    Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update

    Who's Online
    1 registered (1 invisible), 0 Guests and 68 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    TEACHERMOM3.14, Drusillain, chinnny, Fast Words, LC001
    11242 Registered Users
    December
    Su M Tu W Th F Sa
    1 2 3
    4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    11 12 13 14 15 16 17
    18 19 20 21 22 23 24
    25 26 27 28 29 30 31
    Page 6 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
    Topic Options
    #13362 - 04/08/08 06:19 PM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: Dottie]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Ah! Good catch! I didn't know there was a second one.

    I must say, I was appalled!
    _________________________
    Kriston

    Top
    #13364 - 04/08/08 06:24 PM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: Dottie]
    kimck Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/20/07
    Posts: 1134
    You've done some great advocacy/acceleration though! I can't imagine getting to where you are in our school. So again - kudos to you.

    I can't imagine DS sitting through 2nd grade math next year. crazy Although, rumor has it our school actually ability groups for math starting in 2nd grade (by thirds). Which for a MG child would probably be perfect.

    Top
    #13373 - 04/08/08 08:38 PM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: Dottie]
    cym Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/01/06
    Posts: 865
    Loc: southwest
    Our schools adopted Houghton Mifflin this year and I think it's confusing (I have to read the 4th grade question 2-3 times sometimes before I understand what they're asking for...what do you think DS6 understands?) The district is doing a month of Singapore math presentations because someone high up think that's superior (sounds like some on this board would agree).
    At least Saxon is gone.

    Connected math in middle school--I still think is too sluggish for HG kids. DS9 is frustrated with ALEKS because it bounces him back for careless mistakes. I dunno anymore. I wish I could teach my kids but they don't want afterschooling. I like the idea someone came up with on another thread of school 4 hrs/day, then there would be time for our afterschooling/supplemental work without sacrificing their fun, sports, music, theater, etc. time.

    EPGY Honors Algebra course used "Beginning Algebra" by Lial, Hornsby, McGinnis. It's definitely better than the text used in our High School (can't remember title), but not easy to grasp. AoPS (Art of Problem Solving) Intro text is very good, but advances quite quickly (no threat of repetition there).

    I think working problems with an enthusiastic and capable math coach for competition prep with a group of talented math students would be great to supplement normal, challenging course, but haven't tackled that idea yet to make it a reality.

    Top
    #13379 - 04/09/08 06:00 AM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: cym]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Originally Posted By: cym
    I like the idea someone came up with on another thread of school 4 hrs/day, then there would be time for our afterschooling/supplemental work without sacrificing their fun, sports, music, theater, etc. time.


    Not to sound like a smart-aleck, but this is called "homeschooling!" wink [teasing!]
    _________________________
    Kriston

    Top
    #13384 - 04/09/08 07:09 AM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: Kriston]
    LMom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/14/07
    Posts: 902
    Originally Posted By: Kriston
    Originally Posted By: cym
    I like the idea someone came up with on another thread of school 4 hrs/day, then there would be time for our afterschooling/supplemental work without sacrificing their fun, sports, music, theater, etc. time.


    Not to sound like a smart-aleck, but this is called "homeschooling!" wink [teasing!]


    I hope we will get away with 3 smile

    BTW There are states in Europe where elementary students go to school for 20-25 hours per week.
    _________________________
    LMom

    Top
    #13388 - 04/09/08 07:26 AM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: LMom]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    2-3 hours a day of sit-down schoolwork is what we usually do, though the day is full of learning opportunities and extracurriculars, as well as time to play.

    Sometimes less really is more! smile
    _________________________
    Kriston

    Top
    #13395 - 04/09/08 09:09 AM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: Kriston]
    bianc850a Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/02/07
    Posts: 312
    Loc: California
    My dd8 (she just had a birthday!) spends 8 hours at school (7 regular hours plus one elective class after school). Out of the seven she has 1 hour of math, 1 hour of Language arts and 1 1/4 hour of recess/lunch every day. The rest of the day is what I would like to call extracurriculars (art, science, music, spanish, drama, etc.). She elects to take that extra hour at the end of the day. Most of the time she signs up for art. Right now is is taking a digital photography class where the art teacher is combining photography with oil, charcoal and water painting. She also taking a science class called "making six different kids of slime".

    My point is that school doesn't have to be boring or hard or too long. If your child is in the right environment 7 hours go by fast. If a child is in an environment that is toxic (not challenged, bullied, bored, etc) even 2 hours is too much.

    I know I have become sort of a cheerleader for my dd school. I just see that whatever they are doing, it is working and wish every child (gifted or not) had the opportunity to have as perfect a fit as my dd has right now. It pains me to see that unfortunately she is in the minority by far. Schools like hers are few and far between. I love the fact that it is such a small school, on the other hand that means they can only serve a very small amount of kids (278 total in grades 1-8).

    I specially love upper school. My favorite is LEAP wed when children get to decide how they spend their day. This year some children formed a band with the music teacher, they can spend all day taking art or science or working with a mentor in math.

    Going back to the math curriculum. This school offers classes all the way to calculus for the "mathy" kids and has a national champions mathcounts team.

    This kind of learning environment is what every child deserves and should be getting. It is a crime that the school system is not set up in a way that high potential can be nourished. After all, the potential return on the investment should make it worth it.




    Top
    #13396 - 04/09/08 09:26 AM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: bianc850a]
    questions Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/24/07
    Posts: 864
    bianc850a - I wish DS could go to your DD's school! Lucky DD! btw, in a 6 hr. 20 minute day, DS gets 20 minutes of lunch followed by 20 minutes of recess. I have no idea how long they spend on any one subject each day, and on Mondays, they don't have reading - at all!

    Top
    #13399 - 04/09/08 09:47 AM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleratio [Re: Dottie]
    bianc850a Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/02/07
    Posts: 312
    Loc: California
    Dottie,

    Are you sure you cannot be convinced to move to the west coast? We have a family that moved from Korea!

    My point is that there should be one school like my dd's school in every town. I have tried to talk Dottie into starting her own in her living room grin

    Top
    #13400 - 04/09/08 09:49 AM Re: Question about algebra and radical acceleration [Re: Kriston]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3296
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: Kriston
    But WHAT is different? Can you give me a specific example? HOW are they making it conceptual? To be honest, what it sounds like is that they just aren't doing much teaching at all, either of tools or of concepts. Navel-gazing isn't teaching, and that's the impression I'm getting of it (albeit perhaps wrongly).

    I don't call word problems conceptual (and those have always been around anyway). Is there more to it than that?


    Hi Kriston,

    My sons' school uses a spiral system called Everyday Mathematics (EM). These systems are called "Reform Mathemathics." I wrote a letter to the school detailing my ideas about EM's weaknesses. I used specific examples from the books. If anyone wants a copy, PM me and I'll send it.

    Overall, EM has a "spiral" approach that spins from one topic to the next. So in 1st grade they do, say, classical addition for a few days and move to learning shapes. Then they go on "numeracy" which is taught using a grid that looks like a calendar and goes from 1 to 100. Etc. etc. They evertually work back to slightly more advanced classical addition problems and the spiral starts again.

    EM books are wordy and include exercises that ask kids to cut pictures of triangles out of magazines or write the name of the presidents and mottos on various coins.

    They have a limited number of numerical operations. This increased in the 2nd grade book, but all the problems in the 1st half were 1st grade level from what I could tell (entire pages of 8+4, 11+8 etc).


    Critics argue that reform maths systems are superficial and that they don't allow ideas to sink in. Many originally relied heavily on calculators, even in 1st grade. I think the resulting uproar *may* have killed the worst of the calculator stuff. I'm not sure; my kids' school just skips the calculator stuff.

    Google "Math wars" and you'll see what I mean.

    My feeling is that the Reform systems are a swing of the pendulum in the opposite direction from too much rote drilling.

    ALso, EM has a lot of exercises that look mathematical on the surface but really aren't. For example, in grade 1, they cut out a ruler and measure 3 things at home. When they hand in the homework, the teacher has *no way of knowing if the measurements are accurate*. Sure, the parents should have helped, but what if they didn't for some reason or didn't pay close attention?

    Why can't the book just draw a few lines and get the kids to measure the lines? If the goal is to teach them how to measure something, there has to be a way to *assess learning*.

    One of my biggest problems with EM was the number grid approach to addition. This is a twist on counting on a number line, and kids are supposed to "hop" "forward" to add and "backward" to subtract.

    The grid has 10 row of 10 numbers from 1 to 100 (no zero). Because it starts at 1, 10 is on the same line as 1-9 and 20 is on the same line as 11-19, etc. This approach completely fails to show kids that 10, 20, etc. begin new groups of ten. And of course, 100 is on the same line as 91-99.

    Also, I'm not sure why moving across a grid and then down a row to add, say, 8+3, is a better way to teach addition than just using a pile of bingo chips or drawing some circles. Ditto for subtraction, which is less intuitive than addition and requires that you start with a pile of bingo chips (or whatever) and then take something away.

    Also, the grid forces kids to count by ones to add and doesn't TEACH the idea of addition. I think the idea is let them figure it oiut for themselves. But the system is too complicated and many kids can't see the forest for the trees.

    EM makes an assumption that children can understand certain concepts intuitively when they can't. Moving backwards and up a row to do 11-3 is NOT intuitive the way that watching a pile get smaller is.

    So overall, these systems can look attractive to people weary of drill and kill. But they are deceptive and close inspection shows their weaknesses.

    Hope that answers your question?

    Val


    Edited by Val (04/09/08 09:58 AM)

    Top
    Page 6 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >


    Moderator:  M-Moderator, Mark D. 
    Recent Posts
    College debt, default, ROI
    by indigo
    12/07/22 08:37 AM
    Out of level/early SAT
    by Vansh
    12/02/22 11:23 AM
    Aging
    by indigo
    12/01/22 01:33 PM
    WIAT-III outperforming WISC-V: 2e child
    by aeh
    11/30/22 08:17 PM
    The ultimate brag thread
    by Eagle Mum
    11/30/22 01:14 AM
    Davidson Institute Twitter