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    #13101 - 04/05/08 12:48 PM GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom?
    Dazed&Confuzed Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/05/08
    Posts: 1815
    Hello all. This is my first time posting. You all seem very knowledgeable and supportive. I’ve recently received my son’s WISCIV scores and am trying to determine what they mean from a practical standpoint. He is in 2nd grade and constantly complains about how boring school is, how he doesn’t learn anything, all he does is learn things he already knows. I’ve read in “Parenting Gifted Kids” that Children w/ 130-140 IQ range can often be accommodated in regular classrooms where teachers adjust the curriculum and social and emotional difficulties are uncommon. Children with IQ’s in the 140-160 range can seldom be accommodated sufficiently in an educational environment that merely stretches or enriches the curriculum. Too, agemates may offer little sustenance as these kids prefer adults.

    I think my son is somewhere in the middle of these two ranges. He does not have social issues with kids his own age. He’s a very easy going fellow. The teacher says he is advanced in most areas. Have you found the above classification to be accurate generally? I realize that so much of this boils down to personality and you absolutely can't just look at numbers but I would also like to have some scale such as the above to share w/ the teacher. Do you feel comfortable using GAI over FSIQ in referring to the information above? I will schedule WJIII testing soon. I think those scores will be more helpful in advocating for DS at school.

    Thank you!
    Dazed&Confuzed

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    #13104 - 04/05/08 01:19 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: Dazed&Confuzed]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    No, I wouldn't say that's very accurate. In part because it treats IQ as a single, monolithic number. A child can have PG scores in one area and have the overall IQ score pulled down by things less tied to GTness (like Processing Speed, since smart does not always equal fast), yet still be bored silly in class. (BTW, that's where the GAI comes in. It leaves out those scores that aren't as closely tied to GTness.)

    My DS6 has an overall FSIQ score just under 140, but with a PRI that was well into in the upper range that you listed. He was bored, angry, miserable and even began acting out in first grade, which was totally unlike him. All of this is why we had his IQ tested. When we saw his scores and looked at the behavior we had been seeing, everything made sense. We pulled him out of public school for homeschooling. If he were to go back to our public school, he would almost certainly have to be grade skipped. But our choice had MUCH more to do with his level of happiness than with his scores. The scores just explained the unhappiness.

    Then there are kids who are HG+, with scores in that upper range, who are very happy in a regular age-based classroom. Granted they do usually require significant adaptation--at least subject acceleration--but if the regular classroom meets their needs, those kids are very happy.

    Scores are one part of the puzzle that can help to make sense of what a kid needs and why. But making decisions based solely or even mainly on one score on one test on one day isn't very sensible. If you're just looking for trends, maybe you could use that as an argument with the school, but it's not something I'd want to stand behind personally. FWIW...

    As for GAI over FSIQ--what's the spread between the subtests? GAI is very useful if there's a large spread somewhere.

    I don't know if this helps...
    _________________________
    Kriston

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    #13110 - 04/05/08 02:01 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: Dottie]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    And why should Dazed be any different than the rest of us who are equally dazed and confused by all of this GT stuff!? LOL!
    _________________________
    Kriston

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    #13117 - 04/05/08 03:46 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: Kriston]
    Dazed&Confuzed Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/05/08
    Posts: 1815
    Well, I guess I was hoping for the test to give me an explanation as to DS's unhappiness with school. The psych looked at his scores and said that he should be fine in a regular classroom. He suggested I focus my efforts on enrichment outside of school as well as enrichment in the home. Well, we do alot of enrichment inside the home already. DS says he wants to learn at school. When he gets home from school, he just wants to play. But then someone looked at the scores for me and she said she'd consider DS HG. I guess I can't wrap my brain around that just yet. The spread between highest (VCI=148) and lowest (PSI) is 39pts. FS=136 and GAI=146. The two subtests of PSI differed by 5pts so I think the low one is a fluke. The psych did mention that he would have scored higher, he thinks, if had broken the testing into 2 sessions.

    DS's teacher is very young and if she asks me what the scores mean, I'd like to be able to say "this indicates XYZ. THis explains why he is behaving ABC." If only life were so simple.... DS has daily stomach aches in the AM. I'm baffled as to what is best for him.

    I think I saw this at this board: "My DS11 is so emotional at times, and so stoic at other times, that I think it was hard for me to take his cries for help seriously."

    That describes my feelings exactly. My DH says "What child wants to go to school?" I guess I'm trying to figure out what is normal behavior and what isn't.

    still dazed&confuzed

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    #13121 - 04/05/08 04:03 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: ]
    squirt Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/31/08
    Posts: 323
    Loc: Back in Texas, alas!
    Wish I had a clear profile. My son's FSIQ is 131 but his achievement scores are "much higher than anticipated" based on the WSIC-V scores. But, as Dottie told me, his comprehension (social) is only 9, which brings things down a bit. Even though he is doing math and reading at a much higher level than 1st grade, he says school is okay and tells the GT teacher that he doesn't get to his GT projects because the classroom assignments are "too hard". Granted, he doesn't like to write so that might be it. He doesn't complain that he is bored, but when I ask him what was fun or exciting at school it is always PE, Art, Music, Recess, AIM (that's the GT class), or even "waiting for you to pick me up". However, his behavior at home has been deteriorating since he started full time school last fall. His behavior at school is wonderful, so the teacher doesn't really see a problem.

    I don't think I really added anything to this discussion, other to say that, I, too, am dazed and confused about this whole thing.

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    #13124 - 04/05/08 04:33 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: Dottie]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Hi Dazed,
    I don't recall that particular book, but just to add to the Confuzing - many of the older books are talking about SB-LM scores - those old fashioned ones that go 'up up and away' to over 200, and yes, compared to 200, your son's scores would indicate that he would be 'happy' in a normal classroom.

    But he's not - an easy going kid doesn't 'constantly complain' unless there is some reason - and YES normally kids love to go to school in 2nd grade, to see their friends!

    And YeS - your son has the right idea about learning in school and playing at home - how much stamina is a kid that age supposed to have? I might make sure that he works at his readiness level 20 minutes a day, but the best thing to do is fix the situation.

    Advice - forget what you read in the book - it's not correct. Read up on the Iowa acceleration scale manual instead (about 30$) - then go to his teacher and let her know about the griping and stomache aches and show her the work he is doing at home. You are correct that IQ scores don't mean XXXX to teachers - so don't show them unless asked. Play dumb and ask the teacher what can be done to help out with this emotional challenge. Of course you can't say that DS says school is boring, but you can say he is very very unhappy, and that this upsets you.

    Do you see where this is going?

    Meanwhile - make sure sure sure that he can 'do' everything that 3rd grades at your school can do - such as times tables, whatever, so that when the teachers evaluate him, they can see in terms that they understand that he is 'advanced.' Remember - His great insights into the causes of the American Revolution won't impress them - the 7's times table will impress them.

    Basically, you are doing everything right, and it's still not working - so his behavior is telling you that something different has to happen....subject acceleration, grade skip, or homeschool are the most common things that work in this situation.

    Your kid does deserve what he's asking for.
    Best Wishes,
    Grinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #13127 - 04/05/08 04:42 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: Grinity]
    squirt Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/31/08
    Posts: 323
    Loc: Back in Texas, alas!
    Dottie, did you mean me? YOU were extremely helpful to me in our first thread. I hope I didn't do something wrong. Did you email me? How would I know? I didn't even know one could do that.

    Sorry, I keep getting off topic. Somebody throw a shoe at me when needed.

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    #13130 - 04/05/08 04:59 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: Dottie]
    Dazed&Confuzed Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/05/08
    Posts: 1815
    Waving HIIIIII to you Dottie! LOL. I wondered if you were here. Yes, as you can see, I'm still dazed&confused. Not that I didn't believe you lol but needed to chat w/ others and turn this over in my brain. I guess what throws me is that the psych said he should do fine in regular classroom but clearly he is not. But professionals have been wrong before....

    grin


    Edited by Dazed&Confuzed (04/05/08 05:25 PM)

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    #13133 - 04/05/08 05:28 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: Dazed&Confuzed]
    kimck Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/20/07
    Posts: 1134
    I really feel your pain! This sounds so much like my DS7 (1st grade). He learns nothing at school, and really prefers to play at the end of the day. And complains about it. The social justice guy in him doesn't think this is right.

    He has not had a full assessment but hit the ceiling scores on the NNAT. I have no idea what this would look like on a WISC or SB for him, but I do know he is miserable in the regular classroom even with a couple hours enrichment a week. And is working years ahead in reading and at least conceptually in math (he's just learning notation and showing work in math).

    I think that is part of the reason we haven't forked over the bucks for the full assessment. We know he is not a fit in a regular classroom without some major accommodations. I think if you're gut is telling you he needs additional challenge or change, you should listen to it. It's one thing to complain once or twice a month. It's another to do it daily or almost daily. We are most likely homeschooling next year.

    And I know lots of kids in my son's class who aren't thrilled with school on all ends of the spectrum. I hope their parents are looking out for them! Especially if they are also not learning anything.

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    #13134 - 04/05/08 05:35 PM Re: GIfted IQ ranges in regular classroom? [Re: kimck]
    crisc Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/12/07
    Posts: 485
    Loc: New England
    I was recently told by a friend that is a teacher that an IQ in the 140-150 range was fine for a regular school, regular classroom. It was the scores aboue 180 that you had to worry about.

    I tried to provide some education about the ceilings of today's tests being only 160 but she just couldn't see past the old SB-LM scores and the fact that some kids had higher numbers attached as their IQ scores. I gave up. I know that my son is not going to be happy in a normal class. We've already moved him from a preschool to a Montessori school and he still doesn't blend in that environment. I do think a lot depends on each individual child.


    Edited by crisc (04/05/08 05:36 PM)
    Edit Reason: typos galore
    _________________________
    Crisc

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