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How big a deal is this? A male friend who was grade skipped has refused to skip his incredibly smart boys because he had such a miserable time as the older kids went through puberty. He says middle school was particularly difficult.

We're looking at a possible skip for my son from 4th into middle school 6th. I'm told this is a great time to skip because it's a natural transition period and it will be a good time to form friendships. On the other hand, my son is small for his age-- 10th percentile-- and already pretty young for his grade (June birthday).

If he stayed in his current grade he would be enriched and allowed to work at his own pace, but then we'd face probably a difficult transition year when they don't know him at the middle school.

Any thoughts? Also, how does one prepare for a skip?

I think the social part of grade skips is really underemphasized in these discussions. The puberty issue is something to think about. So many posters here just brush that off. What will it be like to be the only kid not driving? Or not going through puberty/dating until college when everyone else is doing that in high school? Etc.
That is not to say your son will have a problem, but just to point out this aspect of grade skipping.
Both of my kids are super bright, and are super small (5th percentile). We are small parents so it's likely they will be short as adults too. We have chosen not to grade skip them due to this physical and social aspect- to us, so much of being a "boy" is how fast you can run and jump, the macho aspect, etc.
There are downsides to not grade skipping- both of my kids are 2 grade levels ahead and are sometimes bored. However, they aren't so bored that they are suicidal or depressed. Both have lots of friends and are in a very good place socially. We aren't sure if that would be the same if they grade-skipped.

I am looking at a similar situation for DD, who has a Sept bday and is the smallest in her class already.

When I skipped, it was with a small group, so going through puberty, I wasn't the only one on the slower side of developing. That is my biggest concern about DD is being the only one going through the process. Going through puberty is one thing, but there is a core group of kids that will also start to experiment sexually, more than I did or want DD to in middle school. I think you will find this more with kids that are red shirted. They are older. You can have a kid 14 turning 15 in grade 8 that was red shirted.

I looked at options and decided to keep DD in public school for grade 4, then do a HS for 5-6 in one year and apply to a specialized gifted school that starts in 7th. It has a small student body and has younger kids that were accelerated. If there are buddies in the same mix, I think it helps a lot during those middle school years.

Ren

My husband didn't want our kiddo to start kindergarten early because when he was in school, he was the youngest and smallest and it was harder for him in sports (he still excelled). However, after having him tested and seeing that our kiddo is not sporty, DH changed his tune. DS8 is effectively skipped 2 grades (one grade skip, one transfer to an accelerated school), and it's been a great fit. He is on the smaller side, but there are other kids his size too (some are also grade skippers, and some are just small). My DH also mentioned that he didn't really have a growth spurt until after high school, so if my DS is like dad, it wouldn't matter if he skipped or not; he'll just be a late bloomer.

Some of the things we considered before the skipping: sports (not really an issue for our nonsporty kid), academic competitions (DS will be younger than the kids he's competing with -so far not an issue). The main thing we considered was that we needed to give our kid the same chance to learn new materials as other kids, so that he is not shocked when he gets to college and meets his first challenge.

I can tell you exactly what I thought when all my friends were driving and I wasn't yet, as I was the youngest in my grade: this is awesome, now I have friends to drive me around. Although I wasn't grade skipped, my boyfriends were all older than me by 1 to 3 years, because those were the people I got along with.

We are happy that we didn't have to skip our son more, since there was an accelerated program relatively near, but we were prepared to skip again in our local schools if necessary.

We are going through the "driving issue" right now. Our daughter is one year younger than her classmates and will not drive until her Junior year.

We took her driving in the cemetery this past weekend so she can at least discuss driving with her peers. She did very well and enjoyed it.

I anticipate facing this issue with dd5. She is in the 5th% (she is Vietnamese) and already people assume she is younger than she is, which bugs her. I get that it is different for boys than girls, but my thinking is, she is already going to be prob. the smallest in the class w/out a skip--so it won't make that much of a difference--she will still be the smallest, but at least she will be challenged. (of course this all actually depends on if she needs a skip or not--but I anticipate she will.)

I guess I just don't feel it's that huge of a deal. Kids can be small for their age, or start puberty late and feel awkward and out of place even without a skip. And the driving issue isn't as big of a deal... at least in Texas you can get a hardship license for your kid at 15 without much work.

I personally didn't start my period until I was 14... and didn't have breasts to speak of until I was 20. There was no getting around it. I was FINE. That stuff didn't seem important to me, so I didn't let it become an issue.

I think it just depends on the kid. If your child is very sensitive to peer pressure, and to teasing, then it's something to consider... if your kid is a little oblivious (like I was) and pretty self-assured, I don't think it's worth letting them be bored for 6+ hours a day for the next however many years just to avoid some awkwardness.

I was already the youngest in my class (Sept birthday literally the day before school started) and also one of the smallest (family history suggests there must be a late-bloomer gene somewhere on the Y-chromosome). So when my mom was asked for permission to skip me ahead in school, she rejected it.

And I think she did the right thing.

My school experience is best described as "hellish" until 7th grade, when I began junior high and finally got some differentiated curriculum with honors classes. Socially, I constantly had MAJOR problems with bullies until the end of 8th grade, at which point my body started catching up. I also began dating here and there in 8th grade.

It was because of those social concerns that my mom held me back. It's important that everything started getting better as I got older, so I gained the confidence I needed to move on to bigger and better things. I'm sure that if I had been skipped, I'd have had bully problems all the way through school, and I'd never have kissed a girl. I don't know where I would have found the confidence to get on with my life, because in the things I've done since, I've certainly needed it.

So, informed by my own experiences, I'd say if your boy is in 4th already and middle school starts in 6th:

- Hang in there, it'll get better soon.
- In the meantime, see what accommodations you can wring from the school that don't involve a grade skip.

And I'll also say that I think boys and girls have a whole different set of concerns when it comes to thinking about a grade skip. The social concerns my mom had for me were valid, I think, but I do not have those same concerns for my DD when we argue (unsuccessfully) for a grade skip on her behalf.

My brother was grade skipped in Kindergarten, but was average in height. He never did excel in athletics, but that wasn't a big deal to him. He was the youngest in his class and ended up Salutatorian. Driving was not a problem, for he had a hardship driver’s license at 14. I don't remember puberty being an issue.

My mom was also grade skipped in 2nd grade in the early 1930’s. She was very tall (5’10”) as an adult, so she had the reverse issue of being taller than all the boys in her grade (and most in the grade above her).

My DD9 was grade skipped in Kindergarten with an additional acceleration in Math (+2). She is tall for her age and most people do not realize how young she is for her grade. We did run into some issues in 1st Grade where she was the only kid in her class who had not lost any teeth, but that was about it. I’m not looking forward to puberty, but do not think it will be a big issue.

FWIW, in my DD’s school, red shirting is very popular and a lot of the shorter boys are held back. The parents do it with the intent of them getting into gifted programs and then being at the top of the class. The short boys are still short in the grade level behind, so that sometimes defeats the purpose of holding them back.

Here, here! Every situation will be different. Except my feelings differ a bit on your last sentence when it comes to young children. I believe what the parent believes is right for their kids should trump what the kids want until the kids are maybe around age 9, for the most part.

I was just giving my opinion too, and everyone's family makes decisions differently. I know my kiddo and how he learns, and I also know that if we had relied on his opinion at age 5 as to whether or not we should grade skip, which involved moving to a different school, he would have said no. The unknown is scary to kids. Of course, we still listened to our kiddo and talked through our reasoning, and eventually swayed him to our side, but the decision was ours as parents. I say age 9 because my kiddo is now 8, and I would give his opinions more weight next year. He has no way at his age to know what the best school situation is for him. Obviously other families will do things differently.

I agree with some aspects and not with others. I feel it varies from child to child. Social aspects and puberty are some issues. honestly puberty has a range and for some it starts at 9 and for others may be 11 or 12 or vary further on either side.

social maturity also varies a lot, so I feel one should decide based on whole spectrum to skip or not

My DD6 skipped K and I always wondered 'what if' not skipped, because she is still 2-3 grade levels ahead. She is not bored, it is not her personality. She will be happy to do whatever she is asked to in school. DD is 90percentile for height and 80 percentile for weight, both her parents are short and small frame. DD often says to my wife that she looks like 3rd grader and her mom looks like 6th grader(DD is 6 now)
just my 2 cents

I wouldn't place any worries on the height - but I do have a short boy who is not grade skipped in middle school and part of the reason we've never pushed for a grade skip is related to believing that for our ds, the social issue would be a concern - which honestly is something that is going to vary a lot depending on the individual child, and I'm not sure I would have been able to forward-predict the imp act it would have made on my kids, hence you basically just need to do what feels right to you for your family and child if you're making that decision when your child is still in early elementary.

Rather than grade skip we've sought differentiation and subject acceleration for ds, as well as putting him into an academically challenging school where the full class is working a grade level ahead - there can be other ways of dealing with the need for academic challenge - and granted, we haven't always been terribly successful at it! But fwiw, in the classes our ds has been in where he's subject-accelerated but they aren't necessarily "gifted" classes, he's still been bored, and I'm not sure that a full-grade skip would have completely met his need for intellectual challenge.

The social issues that I've seen in middle school which I think would have been tough on ds had he been younger than his peers resolve around the kids who are becoming aware of their sexuality, starting to think about dating, growing independence from their parents etc. I didn't see it way back when, but I know today that my ds is on the lower-developing end of the curve re interest in those things, and I've also seen that being gifted sets him apart in school in some ways (and he still appears very much gifted when he's in among older kids). Fitting in is very important to him right now (as it is with many kids who are middle school age)... so for him, being with same-age peers has helped out. *BUT* I don't know that I could have known that looking forward when he was only 5.

I have a good friend who did grade-skip her dd (dd is MG) - and her dd has done really really well academically - but now that she's in middle school, her *parents* are having a lot of issues with her classmates being interested in boys, dating, independence from parents etc - all things that I remember us discussing might happen way back when.... and she honestly says now she wished she had thought it through instead of being so focused on the academics.

Last thought re height - if you made the decision based on height alone, how would you feel about your ds knowing you didn't place him ahead due to his height? If you have some reservations about that, I'd take height out of the equation and just focus on the other reasons for/against a grade skip.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - fwiw, two of my three kids are very short. It has bothered both of them at times - but if they are really short, they are really short no matter whether or not you're switching them around 1-2 grade levels ahead or behind where they should be placed according to age. I'm also really short, and I wouldn't want someone making a decision about school based on my height.

I recommending doing a search on this site for successful un-skips around middle and high school age. There are great success stories on that as well... A skip early on does not mean that you cannot change things later on. It's all about flexibility with our kids.

Some of the parents are mentioning their kids who are not skipped and how they are still a few years ahead of grade and some are mentioning kids who are skipped and who are also still above grade level, etc. The way I looked at it when skipping a young for grade child (who is female, though) is that we went that way when coming close to meeting her needs socially and academically was nearly impossible without the skip.

When you are dealing with a child who is a few grades ahead in many subjects, it might be possible to meet those needs with a combo of enrichment, subject acceleration, and GT programming if available. In our dd's instance, she was easily at the point where she would have been able to do well in high school honors level coursework in science and language arts (reading, writing, everything in LA) by about age 9 (4th grade). She was in that realm of being a few grades ahead in math, but not nearly as accelerated as she was in other subjects. If all of her achievement levels had been at the same level as had her math, I probably would not have agreed to skip her and would have pushed instead for subject acceleration or more GT options.

I'm sure that there are different issues for boys (I don't have one of those), though, in relation to puberty. My dd has not minded being one of the later developing girls and I understand that it generally isn't a social liability for girls (actually that being one of the first to develop can be hard for girls).

Size-wise my grade skipped dd is average or even a bit tall for her age. My younger dd, OTOH, is very short and petite build (around the 5th percentile). We did get the argument about not starting her early in K b/c she was so small but I've generally looked at it this way: if the child is small b/c s/he is way younger and not b/c s/he is going to be smaller than age-mates for his/her whole life, that is one thing. If the child, like my dd, is likely to be short forever (we have many 5' tall women in both my family and dh's), I would not hold him/her back academically in the hopes of making the size difference lesser. A small person will need to learn to deal with the fact that s/he is just smaller than others. Dh is 5'6". As an adult, he has to deal with the fact that most men are a lot taller than he.

I guess that what I am getting at is that I would not use size or later puberty as the deciding factor against a skip if all other indicators point toward it not just being an option but being necessary in order for the child not to suffer academically. It is something to consider, but only one piece of the puzzle.

It's hard to know if your friend would have been more misearable if he hadn't been skipped, or if he needed a double or triple skip, of if he was just fated to be miserable in middle school - some people are. People's memories are quite unreliable, and one thing to know about gradeskips is that in most places they are unusual enough that there is a human tendency to blame every future woe on them.

The second thing to evaluate is the 'LOG' (level of giftedness) and the local student population. In the US people tend to segregate by economic, and there is a trend (not a perfect one) that higher economic areas tend to have more high IQ kids. So IQ and achievement test numbers are very important. For some kids, but the time the school starts being willing to do a skip, they are so different from their classmates that a skip is almost gaurenteed not to be enough. (Although it can be a great start.)

We did a skip at this exact point,on top of a July birthday in a severly red-shirted area and it was very valuable. We were looking at serious underachievement issues, and it gave our son a chance to learn good work ethic. We did undo the skip later, but we don't regret the journey. Assoline actually doesn't recommend a skip before the 'bridge year' for moderately gifted kids(I'm assuming that in your district 5th is the end of elemantary and 6th is the start of middle school) because the bridge year is key to building up organization skills that will be needed at the next level. If
your child is unusually gifted, then it's not so much of a consideration, but we ran into this problem. Our son was undiagnosed ADD at the time as well as PG, and had no work ethic due to the 'enforced underachievement' and keeping him organized became my 2nd full time job. I was willing to do it because it was the only way out of a bad situation, and contrary to what I had read, DS was able to take back the driver's seat of his homework and organizational responsibilities 100% within a few years. I had to break it down and teach it to him in babysteps, and he entered 9th grade for the second time as 'the most organized boy' in the program. Because of DS15's organizational weaknesses, do does better with agemates in a private boarding school that is very 'in dept discussion' orriented with tons of individualized attention. So it is possible, but if we could have kept him at home, and the tuition money in our pockets, we surely would have.

And would be be enriched enough? and do you really want to go through the whole thing next year? So much depends on if you are in a 'Superzip' neighborhood, what your child's LOG is, how happy he is with his agemates, how organized he is, what kind of stamina he has, what kinds of bedtimes you can put up with, how good he is at handling social situations, and what are your alternatives. Can you try it for 2 months and then go back?

What is motivating you to make the change in the first place?

Best wishes, we'd love to hear how it all turns out.
Love and More Love,
Grinity

I am in the same boat with my son 9 y.o. in 3rd. He is ready for middle school if we use testing and scores to judge by. He is tall in the 90% for his age. He plays baseball, basketball and soccer each year since he was 5.
We do not know what we are going to do yet. A single grade skip is possible.
We thought we would put out all the options and ask him what he wants.
He wants to go to 4th grade and see how doing some independent stuff works out (AoPS). We are also going to try a math tutor/mentor also. We have contacted several and believe we have found a really nice match. He is the High School calc teacher and was suggested by the Middle school principal. He seems so excited to meet our son. He gave him a couple Algebra questions over the phone to try to wet his chops.

He loves school and his buddies. He has been bounding through on his NWEA scores.

the school HA coordinator sent A Nation Deceived home with him for us to look at. she also included a copy of Smart but Scattered by Peg Dawson and Richard Guare. Believe me, I know I could have worse problems

Reading some of these posts makes me even more appreciate the principal at the middle school my daughter was skipping into.

When discussing/debating placing her in 6th or 7th grade, the principal at the middle school interjected and said if our chosen tool (the IAS) was saying my daughter was an excellent candidate, and the discussion was (now) only about the social aspect; then we should trust the tool, we should do the skip, and the parents, teachers, and administration need to do their job and make sure the social side does not get out of hand. She then followed up with, "middle school sucks for everyone, not just those who have skipped a grade or two."

-S.F.

You know, the funny thing for my dd who skipped was that middle school was probably the best years she's ever had socially. I had a horrible time in Jr. high and was bullied terribly. Dd was extremely popular especially by her last year. She got lead roles in plays, was in the honor choir, NJHS, went to dances, had boys asking her out left and right, had friends, won numerous awards, and just had a great time. It really helped that she had one HG++ friend and a number of other gifted kids (not just high achievers) who were about 18 months older than she so she had peers probably for the first time ever.

I am so hoping that this is the case for my dd who we are looking at skipping from 6th to 7th. Unless I am confused, (but am too lazy to go back and check) I think our dds had sort of similar profiles. Glad to hear it went well for her!

And this highlights why girls and boys have to be evaluated according to different standards, because being 18 months younger generally means the bolded things don't happen to boys.

And when it does, boyo, does it cause parents to worry! (parents of girls also are generally not too pleased once the gap grows even bigger, 3 years isn't that uncommon.) But again, you have to ask yourself
1) was this kid going to be the local M.O.K. (as my dad would say) if he stayed with agepeers?
2) how important is this to your family? We came to the conclusion that academics and social were equally important to our family - which generally meant we 'took turns' with a great social year followed by a great academic year until we finally found a place that was great all around.

It seems to me that with the current local dating customs around here, there is a flurry of 'dating' in later middle school, and then not so much through out the rest of high school for most kids.

((shrugs))
Grinity

I think how the child is doing in his current grade is a factor as well. I have a DS6 who was skipped to second grade this school year. He is the size of most kids in Kindergarten. He fit in much better this year than he did last year. He has loads of friends, and we have not had any issues since the first few weeks of school. A few girls in his class were mean to him. They worked out their issues early on, and there is no doubt we made the correct decision.

I can attest to this in that dd13 has had 16-17 y/o boys interested in her and that type of an age gap is not comfortable or allowable here.

What is a M.O.K.?

Wolf is now average to below average height for his age. He was in the 95% when he was younger. Height can vary dramatically from year to year. Height didn't even come into our decision about early entrance for him, however he also will probably never be in a "regular" same-age (or even close) class.

The big thing for us was would he be happy. He would have been bored to tears without it and might have become a discipline problem. He is a social butterfly with no trouble making friends or fitting in if he doesn't steamroller the kids with whatever is on his mind at the time. If we couldn't have differentiated his school work to the dramatic point we have then I would have wanted a double skip for him at least. The problem is that we aren't dealing with a regular classroom situation so we aren't dealing with that strict pecking order hierarchy. I'm not totally certain what I would do in that case, one skip for sure, but probably not more, fight to find balance somehow.

Bear, on the other hand, is not good socially and has behavior and developmental issues. Although he is more than bright enough to academically do well with a skip, emotionally and socially he is actually behind. Pretty much no matter what school situation he ends up going into a skip will be really far down our list of considerations.

I wasn't skipped due to the social girl reasons. I would probably have been better off all around with a skip. An acquaintance of mine was skipped and was miserable with it. It's totally up to the individual kid.

I guess for us we decided that any decision we make is not a permanent one, and pretty much any desicion we could make in our public school setting would not be perfect. My son was "fine" with his school situation because he is a very social person but in the 2 years he'd been in school I saw huge changes in him.. I was already seeing him get lazy about anything "work" related because it was so boring and he became less mature rather than more mature. For these reasons we decided giving him the nudge to grade skip was a good idea even though he was apprehensive about leaving his "friends" (who he never interacted with outside of school and mostly just bossed around). After the first day of his skip he was asking to go back and after only 2 weeks I have seen the old him returning. He is so happy, loves the work (which is still easy but a closer match), and is acting more mature... My gut feeling was that this is where he belonged and so far it's been nothing but amazing. Our public schools do not have good options for differentiation. Everything is focused on standardized testing so anything he did at his level would be extra work on top of being in a boring school situation at least for the next 4 years. I wasn't about to waste 4 years of my child's life sitting in a classroom learning how to deal with being bored. I like to think that I am raising my kids to be independent and adaptable so although I know this is the right choice now, I also know it may change later. If he finds his social situation too difficult as he gets older, we will address that when it happens and adjust, whether it means pulling him out for a year or moving to a new school district or whatever... You really have to look at your sons personality individually. Since your son is much older than mine, I think you can also weigh his feelings more heavily, although ultimately my opinion is that what most of us are striving for here are kids that will learn the necessary skills to be successful and happy in life with their abilities and it's our job as the parents to make the final decisions on what will help them do that the best. Definitely talk to him about it and think about whether you feel he is missing something valuable by not skipping. I know my son was missing out by being held back, at least at this point in his life. All of the things in that article "What a Child Does not Learn" are important to me and my family and my child was definitely not learning those skills. Good luck!

Thank you all so much for you thoughts. We have many more things to consider regarding a skip now. I am concerned about the social piece as he gets older, and I do know it's our responsibility to help him find the balance he's looking for.

OP, I seldom post on this topic because it's extremely emotional for me. In fact, I purposefully did not read other posts in the thread and am responding only to you - because you asked for thoughts on grade-skipping a smaller-sized, high-IQ boy.

Based on experience with our own grade-skipped DS (now 12 & in the 5-10th % for height), I will tell you what I wish someone would have told me before we allowed DS to be skipped from K to 1st:

Before skipping your DS, visit the middle school, walk the halls during passing periods and watch the boys. Pay attention to the details and interactions. Talk with the gym teacher and coaches. Find out everything you can about P.E & the boys' locker rooms. If your DS will be required to wear a gym uniform, ask what's the smallest size available. Talk with the lunchroom staff. Talk with the custodians (who clean the boys' bathrooms). Seriously. Talk to anyone & everyone about how the social interactions of the day go, what after-school activities are offered, and how after-school events are handled. Find out about mixers, clubs and sports. (Even if you can't imagine your DS wanting to be part of mixers, clubs or sports.) Observe the boys. Seek out parents of boys. Talk to them, in-depth, about the challenges boys face in middle school, both academically and socially.

Talk with the middle school teachers. Find out how "organized" they expect the students to be. What are the expectations for note-taking, projects, group projects and term papers? In our experience, middle school places strong emphasis on organizational skills - even more so than actual academics - and some high IQ kids, espc boys, can be "nutty professor" types. How understanding will the teachers be regarding a student on the younger side who is still learning key organizational skills?

If your DS has aspirations for student leadership, find out how elections are run. Are some positions appointed or is all student leadership determined by popular vote? Think about what you are told.


If your middle school posts "daily announcements" online, read them. Read those announcements for at least 2 months before you move DS.


Find out about the use of social media among middle schoolers. Read articles, blogs, and talk to parents, teachers & administrators. Understand the role that social media will play in the school day - even if your DS is not on Facebook & never will be in middle school.


Learn about texting and "sexting," even if you have no intention of giving your DS a phone in middle school.

Listen to the music that's popular among the middle school set. Note the words. Watch the popular shows on TV, videos on YouTube, whatever. Even if your DS will never be exposed to this at home, find out what is popular and dissect it. Watch how young men are depicted in popular culture. Understand the world that your much younger, much smaller boy will enter.

If you have trusted friends with middle school boys, ask the parents if you may talk with these boys about school, friends and after-school life. Then ask questions and listen to what these boys tell you. Listen hard.

Then, if you are still undecided, go to your feeder high school. Repeat the steps above. Do not walk away until you understand what high school life is like in today's world, especially for boys/young men, regardless of their particular IQs.

And talk to your pediatrician.

We grade-skipped our DS in Kindy, at the school's strong recommendation - but we did go along with it, so we are ultimately accountable. It was not uncommon for 1-2 kiddos to be skipped each year at our school, at that time. I honestly do not know a single one of these kids who has done well socially - and some have not thrived academically, either. Many are in HS now. One graduated last year - at age 16 - and is going to her "safety" college, not having been accepted anywhere else. The grade-skipping days at our elementary are basically over, given what has happened to some of the older kids.


In our case, DS went from being the most popular student in 1st grade (the "pet") to a boy with almost no friends in 5th (the "outcast). When our older DS went to middle school, he came home after 2 weeks and pulled DH & me aside, telling us that he could not imagine his younger brother going to middle school at such a young age. He told me what I already knew in my heart, but did not want to accept.

In the end, we realigned DS with his same-age classmates before he hit middle school. Yes, he repeated 5th grade. He bears some emotional scars, I'm sure, but he is doing incredibly well at school, on above-level tests, and much better in the "friendship" category. He is class president, too. He is happy again & dreams of doing all the things his high school brother does - and now he has a real chance at some of those things. Not all are academic.

Your friend who won't subject his own boys to what he endured as a child has good reasons for what he's doing. IMO, if the school doesn't make gym clothes that fit your DS, that may be a metaphor for other things.


My heart goes out to you, whatever you decide. Best of luck in your journey.

I think that Jewel brings up some valid points. However, IMO most of them seem to point more towards homeschooling as a solution rather than keeping a kid in a grade where they are not challenged at all. Most of those issues would still be issues for a kid in the 5th% with his same age peers. I just don't see how not skipping is going to address bullying, sexting, popular culture etc. And believe me I have put plenty of thought into all of this stuff. I get that it is very different for boys than girls, but I think every kid and family is also different. To Jewel, I am glad your family found a solution for your son. And I actually think your advice is right on for all parents, whether a skip is being considered or not.

Jewel, I have tears in my eyes. Thanks for sharing your story and insight. I'm glad your boys (hopefully both of them?) were able to find a comfortable fit eventually. Kids naturally gravitate toward my son now, and you're right, that probably wouldn't happen in an older set of kids. Very good food for thought. And deacongirl, I do see how that points to homeschooling or at least alternative schooling as well, to meet his academic needs.

Jewel, I disagree.

Acceleration, especially radical acceleration, obviously involves tradeoffs. It creates an age discrepancy with classmates in order to approximate an appropriate academic level.

However, I think it's going overboard to be so afraid of a single skip in kindergarten based on a parade of horribles from middle school. A PG child's educational options may change so drastically by normal middle school age (minus one) that these concerns are completely inapplicable anyway. A PG child may be taking college classes at that point. It's not valid to deny someone academic advancement at the proper pace and level based on concerns over sexting; such concerns are irrelevant in the face of such an academic mismatch. The thing to do is instead be creative in finding the best fit possible, while addressing social and safety concerns as well as possible.

Social and physical maturity are certainly important to consider, but concerns in kindergarten over a one-year mismatch of these factors in middle school are in my opinion never a reason not to skip a kindergartner. Before skipping a kindergartner, nobody is really going to undertake a months-long investigation involving interviews with middle-school boys of friends; interviews with lunchroom staff and custodians; interviews with gym teachers and coaches, asking to view locker rooms, walking the halls with special attention to watching boys, and seeking out parents of boys; reading months of middle school status updates, Facebook posts and blogs; an analysis of how young men are depicted in popular culture; and possibly repeating at the high school level. In fact, upon requesting access to do such things, serious concerns would probably be raised about one's true intentions, especially with a stated reason about a kindergartner.

Grade skips can work quite well, and this is supported by research. We don't need to be afraid of negative effects many years away when skipping a kindergartner. Instead, what's called for is a rational assessment of each proposed skip on a case-by-case basis. Reading up on on experts' opinions and research findings can help (see Hoagies, A Nation Deceived, etc.).

This is very well said. And the path we will take when I anticipate we will be considering a skip for dd5 in the future.

I've got skipping on the brain again today myself--DS's daycare provider brought it up to me again this morning. In fact, what she said was "You probably ought to prepare yourselves for him to skip K, don't you think?" (Her own kids are GT and her little boy is in K at the school he's slated to attend for K, so she knows what he's going to experience in K.)

He's very tall, so that's maybe good, but if his trajectory is like his sister's and his father's, he'll be tall through K and then level off and be average later.

I just...don't....know.

Right now one issue I see is that we are having major sibling rivalry here, and that having one skipped kid and one who is not skipped (DD could easily be skipped academically, but I would never consider it due to her social and emotional immaturity) would likely make things even worse. Anyone else have that issue?

My older brother was grade skipped, but I was not. He was simply just in a higher grade, and no questions were ever asked. For the most part, when kids are young this just doesn't seem to matter. It's just the way things are. If your son goes straight into 1st Grade, then your daughter will probably accept the fact that he is going into 1st Grade instead of Kindergarten. Your daughter will probably understand that this is just where he needs to be. The grade skipping was never an issue with me. (Of course, there were other areas of rivalry.)

Good luck!

I appreciate Jewel's perspective. Skips do not always work perfectly, and it is good to know some of the things you may encounter. But as lucounu pointed out, a lot of the things that Jewel mentioned sound less like a bad skip result and more like a bad school environment. I think it is a great idea to look ahead somewhat (though not all the way to middle school). Definitely investigate the class your kiddo is skipping into. If it appears that the group of kids will not be a good fit for your kid, think very hard before making a skip. And remember that you can always undo a skip. The elementary years are the hardest for kids who need more challenging materials - there is so much repetition. The early years are in my opinion the best ones to make a skip.

ETA: Not everyone is in a district with lots of options for schools, or in a state that allows open enrollment. Sometimes there really is just one bricks and mortar school option. In that case you have a whole other level of analysis to do when considering a skip, and I think Jewel makes some good points. If you cannot homeschool, and the social situation would become worse with a skip, then maybe it's not the best thing to do. Different in every situation. I do feel lucky that we've been able to drive to a better-fit out-of-district school for our DS, but sometimes there isn't that option.

I agree that you are going to run into these issues eventually even when your child is with same-age peers. However, as the parent of one middle school child and another on the verge of middle school, on the one hand and actually running into this both with a ds and a dd - it really can be more complicated to sort through and deal with when there is an age difference among peers - both for boys and for girls, both for the students themselves and for the parent parenting them through it all

I agree that it's unlikely that a parent is going to research all the many middle-school people and situations that Jewel listed in her post and also feel quite honestly that the world (including the actual school situations, and especially the world of technology) changes so quickly that what is relevant now at one specific middle school among one specific group of kids will be likely very different 4-6 years from now when a child who is currently headed into K-1 is moving to middle school. However, I really like her list as a list of all the things a parent should think about and work out for themselves re will I be comfortable with this situation for my child if he/she is skipped.

I also tend to think that a one-year skip for a kid who only really needs a one-year academic skip isn't all that big of a worry - we've had quite an age range in most of my kids' classes over the years simply due to birthdays and kids transferring in from other school districts and parents who hold kids back to give them extra time to mature before starting kindergarten. The age difference seems, just to me, to be more of an issue for a child who needs more than 1 grade level skip - and in that case, I haven't really seen that conventional schools (at least where we're at) offer a good solution anyway, so by the time your child is in middle school you'll most likely be looking at alternatives.

polarbear

Our son has skipped two grades and is now in 7th @ age 10.

Yeah, his gym clothes are baggy and he's not the tallest/fastest/strongest. He goes to school with a fair number of troglodytes. And yet he survives... no... he thrives. And excels.

I suppose I've had plenty of doubts over the years about his two skips, especially when I begin obsessing over what may or may not happen to him X years in the future. (Poor kid won't be driving until college!)

But... I recently worked on a project that took me into all the fourth and fifth grade classrooms in our district (where his age-mates are), and OMG... I couldn't imagine my son in any of those classes. Sure, he would be the perfect height and all... but c'mon.

What's the purpose of being retained with your age-mates & height/weight-mates if you are pulled out for special classes, private-tutored three years ahead in math, differentiated up the wazoo in every other subject, and essentially doing nothing with your classmates except for lunch & recess?

Yes... I KNOW there people with bad skip experiences. I KNOW skipping is not the answer for all gifties. Skipping is, however, a very practical and successful option for many and should not be dismissed.

-- -- -- --

And I'd be remiss for failing to mention "A Nation Deceived," which I think is excellent reading for people contemplating grade-skips or other methods of accommodation.

"A Nation Deceived"
http://www.nationdeceived.org/

There's an executive summary for the proverbial wetting of the feet: (http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/Executive_Summary.aspx), and then the reader can plow into the full report for all the gory details.

You should also take some time to read some of the Personal Stories at the Nation Deceived website from students, teachers & parents:
http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Personal_Stories/Read.aspx

And lastly, there's the wonderful article, "What a Child Doesn't Learn."

The full article is available here:
http://www.fightingautomatons.com/news/2009/02/gew-09-what-a-child-doesnt-learn/

We skipped DS7 into Kindergarten (his birthday is at the end of November). He was the smallest kid in class even when he was with kids "his age".

He's now in a 2/3 class (should be in 1st based on birthdate) and is still bored. Will we skip him again? Most likely not. However, I am glad we did the original skip because he would have been AWFULLY bored in class if he was in 1st grade now.

Granted, I don't know what it's going to be like for him as a middle/high schooler, but I think it would do more harm than good for him.

I was the youngest in my grade and I never felt "behind" when everyone else was driving, going through puberty, dating, etc.

I think there were some great points made for both arguments. I hope whatever you decide is good for your family and your children.

I don't know if Jewel is reading as it sounds like this is understandably a very difficult topic for her. I don't want to pick her post apart for that reason, but I do want to address two points or so.


As I mentioned earlier, I have girls and I imagine that the needs are different for different sexes. My youngest, however, is not grade skipped although she is among the youngest in grade and, technically, an early entry b/c we started her out of district to get around missing the cut-off for K by two weeks. Even without a grade skip, she is tiny, though. The smallest size PE uniform this year in 6th was a child's large (size 14). Dd11 was wearing an 8 slim at the start of the year and really still fits into some of her 8 slims. I had to have my mother alter the PE uniform shorts so they didn't hang below her knees and fall off her waist.

Point being, a small child is going to be smaller potentially for all his/her life. I do understand that boys grow later than girls and may not be destined to be smaller permanently as is the case with my dd, but if they are genetically likely to be small, that will be an issue regardless of age for grade. My dd would be a small 5th grader had we waited to start her in K a year.


I'm so sorry that this has been the experience at your district but it does leave me wondering what data they were using to skip these kids. I may be in the minority, but I'd be more hesitant to skip in K or very early b/c it may be harder to tell if it is absolutely necessary at that young age. If it is clearly absolutely necessary, then school is likely to be a challenge either way. "Clearly absolutely necessary" early in elementary, to me would include 99th+ composite IQ scores, math achievement at least at 2nd or 3rd grade level and reading at least at 4th grade equivalency.

We have not seen negative outcomes locally from well planned grade skips. Where parents have pushed in the case of a kid who could be accommodated in grade level, where there were 2e issues, where the IQ scores weren't available and the kid was skipped solely on the basis of high achievement (a grade or a few above level in some subjects especially if it wasn't advanced in writing)... Those are the instances where we've seen it not work out so well (and have heard as much from GT coordinators who were discussing the ramifications with us when suggesting a skip for dd13).

My dd13 is finishing up her freshman year of high school at a one of the top performing high schools in our area in a high performing area overall. Per her last transcript, she is ranked #1 in her class of about 500. Granted, I'm sure that #1 status is shared with other 4.0 students, but I'd be shocked if she cannot get into a good college and has to settle for her back up choice.

I may just be in a contrary mood this morning, but for what it's worth, I would try to get my advice from someone with the same sex child, and also someone who's child is older...well into high school and beyond if possible. You can't get the big picture from someone who's child is in the throws of middle school, or hasn't reached puberty yet. Not that their points aren't valid, but that it's not the big picture.

Ouch! While I've said that I don't have boys and I'm sure that the puberty issues do impact them differently, my skipped child is going to be a high school sophomore in August so I'd feel comfortable with saying that, four years post skip, it was a good choice.

Unfortunately for this conversation, my family has a lot of females, but I do have older family members who skipped up to two grades combined with early entry (again female, though) and for whom it also worked out well academically and socially.

I'm not trying to convince the OP that skipping is universally the answer or right for all HG kids. I do also have a HG kid who isn't skipped. I'm just trying to provide perspective on two things:

* Genetically small people are going to be small people forever. You can't make educational decisions based on placing smaller people with their size peers or they'd never get past middle school.

and, in regard to my last post

* A skip needs to be well planned meaning it needs to look at all of the factors in the IAS (age, size, maturity, desire for the skip, academics, ability...). I wonder in the case of an elementary that skipped one or two kids every year, whether they had considered all of those pieces, and if that might account for the poor outcomes.

Unfortunately, when kids are skipped willy nilly b/c they are high achieving, the outcomes aren't as likely to be good and it creates those situations that are problematic for all of our kids who really need and want the skip. Parents and educators alike are left with anecdotes of how badly all of the skips they've heard about worked out.

Research shows that the net effects of acceleration are positive, for both sexes. That's the big picture. Individual stories add useful detail for the OP and future readers, though no two situations will match exactly.

We do to an extent. My dd11 is HG and 2e. Dd13 is HG and, although slower in processing speed, not really 2e the way her sister is. Both started as the youngest in grade and dd13 is skipped. Dd11 is not and has the traditional younger sibling in the shadow issues.

The way we've dealt with it has been multifaceted. For one, we have dd11 at a different middle school than her older sister attended so she isn't being compared by peers or teachers (they don't know her sister). Dd11 is also doing some programs and extracurriculars that her sister did not. She is getting very good at cello (her sister does not play an instrument) and has won some contests such as a regional writing contest recently. While dd13 could probably benefit from things like Yunasa, we're only sending dd11 b/c dd13 has other summer programs that cater to her interests and we can't afford it for both of them.

Ultimately, it was hard on dd11's ego immediately post skip b/c they had been @ the same school and she got a lot of "oh, you're [dd13]'s sister" from other kids. However, I couldn't do wrong by dd13 in order to assuage dd11's feelings. Instead, we had to find a way for dd11 to have her own areas to shine. She has blossomed more academically over the past year or two as well and is subject accelerating in math, so that has probably helped too.

The real irony is that I have some guilt about feeling like I threw DS under the bus to accommodate his sister--we gave up his guaranteed spot at a charter (not...great, but it was a spot for K and 1) so she could go to this gifted magnet.

We'll see, but I'm pushing a skip closer to the front burner for DS. However, the emotional pitch for DD is so high at home already. There really is some intense jealousy of her brother going on. Fortunately, we do have at least a year to get things sorted. I am also slightly considering keeping him home for K and putting him into a sort of loose homeschool coop situation that seems to be cropping up. He is just going to be an easier child to accommodate in a lot of ways in that he does not have the intensity issues that DD does and is a lot more flexible. He's also extremely well-rounded--no overexcitabilities to speak of, good fine motor skills, and socioemotionally he's probably a bit advanced, although it could be that I am just comparing him to his sister at this age. However, it's true that I have yet to see how he does in a really structured environment.

I wanted to add something about the sibling rivalry... We have DD9 who was identified *not* to be eligible for gifted services and DS7 who is Gifted (2e).

DD9 knows DS7 has skipped a grade that "he should be in 1st grade". She also knows that he can do 7th grade math and she can't.

I think no matter what, there will be sibling rivalry. DS7 wants to be "older", he often says he wishes he was born first.

I don't think (IMO), in our situation, that grade skipping and sibling rivalry have anything to do with each other. They're going to find something to be jealous of no matter what.

HA! Sounds like my son!!!

The school my kids attend now is a multi-age setting. This year they're both in a 2/3 class and they could have been placed together, however, I did not want that. Now reading your response, maybe I'll try that in 2 years when they'll both be in a 4/5 class...

How interesting. DS is definitely a "youngest child" personality and DD owns the oldest child persona, so we aren't like that here. I guess part of my uneasiness is that I suspect some of the recent surge in issues with DD stems from the fact that she feels threatened by DS, who is four years younger but who does certainly try pretty hard to keep up with her. I think it bugs her that he can read. In fact, today she was reading aloud to her and started yelling at him because he was reading ahead to himself/under his breath and ignoring her. (You can see how it would gall you if you were an 8yo who has always been a superstar reader and that was your pesky 4yo brother, whom you thought you were humoring by reading to him from one of his many somewhat boring ocean books.) They used to get along a lot better, back when the gulf between them was wider and he was more obviously a "little" brother. Now he sometimes beats her at games. Not often. But sometimes.

My DD really should have been a younger - I joke that the ideal situation for her would be for a 6-years-older brother to have sprung into being at her birth.

That's exactly what happened at our house when DS started reading and getting "smarter". DD gets bugged, bad. Especially when he beats her in a game. Heck, he kicks most adults tails in chess, she can't get too upset. LOL

My PG son skipped two grades and was also on the small side. He periodically became anxious about his size and needed his doctor to reassure him that his height was within the normal range from time to time. That seemed to calm his anxiety for a year or two. He hit a growth spurt in high school although he is, even now, not what anyone would call tall.

More importantly, in HS he finally had a group of students he became friends with, spent the day with in advanced classes and who respected and honored his abilities.

We also dealt with rivalry with the older sister who was never GT identified although she has come to realize she has amazing strengths he doesn't have. She's the one who elbows her brothers aside to fix a sink or build a fence.

Being in different middle and high schools was helpful for her because she was able to be known on her own merits and not as his sister. She became more assertive and outspoken which for her was a good thing. It also helped him develop the independence necessary to go far away for career opportunities at 15-16.

Sorry to ask such a trivial question, but what are DS and DD in this context?

Thanks!

"darling son" and "darling daughter" or dear...

My grade-skipped DD with an end-of-August birthday (so ~1.5 years younger than her classmates) goes through this too. I think it's perfectly understandable in kids who spend their days with older kids.

We serendipitously discovered that a good cure for the problem is to send her off with a group of kids who are her age for an afternoon. In our case, she was invited to a birthday party for a boy in the class a year behind hers. It gave her a good group to compare herself with.

LOL. I was expecting a very technical answer.

That is sweet. Thanks for explaining.