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I think you're missing half the point of my post. The bias I experienced was at public school. NASA is a government funded organization. I expect my government to operate without bias. I'm glad that your angel investors missed a money making opportunity as a result of their bias, but while I see it as the duty of government to treat citizens fairly, I don't see it as the duty of government to force citizens to treat each other fairly. I want people to do that on their own. However, our government actually does have anti-discrimination requirements for economic entities, so it seems to me that you could have filed a case against your would-be angle investors, if you felt you had sufficient evidence. (Not saying you should have, obviously that's a personal choice, and I wouldn't ever bring a case against a non-government entity for excluding me from their business dealings.)

I think there are two different problems here that are being conflated. One is bias in hiring and the other is bias in expectations. The NASA mentoring program is addressing bias in expectations.

There are many valid criticisms of hiring practices that exclude or pick people based on gender, race, etc. I generally agree with them. There are exceptions (e.g. clothing models), but generally, there are good arguments against bias in hiring.

At the same time, bias in expectations is everywhere, and it can be harmful. The uber-girlie Lego kits I linked to are a good example. They're simplistic, as opposed to complex kits aimed at boys. Is this because girls can't do "hard" kits? I don't know. But if you don't believe me, just click through the Lego Friends kits on Amazon or some other site and look at them. They feature basic designs, and everyone is nice and happy and smiling and not challenging the status quo (again, compare to sets for boys). This is only one of countless examples. My DD7, who figured out how to divide in her head when she was three, told me that she's not good at math because it's not for girls. She certainly didn't hear from anyone in her family.

You had better hurry. All of society is giving your daughter a different message, including, possibly, her teachers if she is in a b/m school.

I see where you're coming from, but it certainly isn't a windmill worth tilting in my book. A few female scientists and engineers chatting via Skype with little girls is a good thing, but maybe offering a similar opportunity for boys wouldn't be out of the question. I think Val put it very well

You may think girls' Legos are too girlie, but they will sell well only if many girls like them. If they sell poorly, they will be discontinued. That is how the free market discourages "bias", properly defined as *incorrect* beliefs about the sexes. Some activists in the government, which is not subject to market discipline, want different groups make the same choices about what to study or what careers to pursue, and they are willing to discriminate to achieve their aims. This is economically inefficient and morally wrong.

The best sort of mentoring and the best role models would be born out of already existing relationships:. Teachers, parents, interested professionals. I think we all agree that these relationships can have great impacts on people's lives.

The fact that NASA has created a program to mentor young girls, along with the low numbers of girls going into STEM programs, suggests that the informal system has broken down for girls and Women@NASA is attempting to make up for this breakdown. The informal system seems to work for boys so complaining about this little program for a handful of girls seems a bit petty, imo.

As for what message it sends to boys, well, it seems to me it sends the message that the industries are is designed with them in mind so they don't need these "make-up" programs. And why should we be more worried about the messages boys receive than the messages girls receive?

This reminds my of the day I went to little league football registration with my DS7, who sincerely asked, "how come there aren't any girls here?" Sigh. I wish we lived in his world.

Agreed. The vast majority of teachers are female, and being raised without a father is much more common than being raised without a mother. So it seems to me that the opportunity for girls to have a significant relationship with a positive same-sex role model is significantly greater than the opportunity for boys.


Petty. Principled. Tomato. Tomahto. I can easily put myself in the situation of someone with a girl who is interested in the program who also has a son who would be interested in the program if they didn't discriminate against him. If something is unfair on an individual level, but argued as fair on a group level, I usually don't agree with those arguments. Thomas Sowell wrote a book on the issue called "The Quest for Cosmic Justice."


What do you mean when you say our industries are designed?


Did someone say we should be? I suggested that the message boys receive should not be completely ignored.

Please refrain from insults - I went back and deleted a few comments.

Thanks!

On the topic of girls having so many same-sex role models: Did you notice how many of the girls want to be teachers or moms in the "What do they want to be thread?" Just sayin....

Look on www.nasa.gov and go to the student section. There are many oppotunities. Find something they can both do.

Wow, ok so I have been really busy this week and haven't gotten back to this post. I was trying to pass along an opportunity that rarely comes along for girls who are excited about this kind of thing. And its free besides your own supplies.

Any opportunity, no matter for girls, boys, 2e, 99.9%'ers, should be cause for applause. Especially with cut backs to gifted education in many school districts.

Thank you NASA Women!