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Can I get some opinions on Aleks for Algebra? About 6 weeks ago, DS (homeschooled) switched from Teaching Textbooks to Aleks for Algebra I so that DS could get some extra practice in one specific area. But he really likes it, and in several areas, I prefer Aleks to TT.

However, I often hear about Aleks used for afterschooling, summer review, etc. But I don't hear much about folks using it as a standalone course. Is it "math lite"? DS is a math guy and does a lot of pleasure reading in Life of Fred, Zaccaro books, etc. So Aleks wouldn't be his only Algebra work--but it would be the main course.

I want to be sure he's doing something fairly rigorous, but I'm not a math person. I know that some of you here ARE math people...and I value your opinions on this matter. Is Aleks a good course, or should I really be looking into something like AOPS for Algebra I?

Thanks in advance!
Tara

Everyone I know who uses Aleks loves it.

Our DYS contact even suggested going with Aleks until DS6 memorizes his times tables, since roughly half of Singapore 3A is multi-digit multiplication, and it's a royal pain to do that without having your times tables down.

I suspect Aleks tends to be favored by afterschoolers because it's on a computer, not from a workbook, while full-time HSers like the workbook. It's just my theory, so it's worth exactly what you paid for it (LOL!), but I know I'm not very happy to give up my time on the computer, plus we can't take it with us like we can our workbooks. Using Aleks would require a big change in our schedule, and I'm not up for that yet.

But I'm definitely thinking about switching.

I don't know about how it is for algebra. Let me know for when we get there, would you, please?

Well, DS was already about 1/3 of the way through TT's Algebra I course when we switched to Aleks. When he first took the Aleks Algebra I placement test, it said he already knew a little less than a third of their Alg I topics. And now, according to Aleks' handy-dandy bar graph, DS is about 2/3 of the way through that list of Algebra I topics (after using Aleks for 6 weeks).

His pace seems too fast to me - for him to be able to complete Algebra I in less than 5 months at 8 years old. The fact that he is moving so quickly could either be the whole PG-pacing thing, or (my fear) that Aleks isn't rigorous enough. Again, math not being my strong suit, I'm not sure which option is the right one. I just want to feel comfortable with the curriculum we're using, and haven't heard from anyone using Aleks full-time for high school math...

Tara

It doesn't seem like an unreasonable pace to me. DS6 did two years of elementary school math in less than 4 months before we hit the times tables wall. So Algebra I in that same space of time--especially if he came with some knowledge beforehand--seems reasonable.

If you're doubting that he really had 1/3 of the concepts under his belt already, well, that, too, seems possible to me. I'd bet money that DS6 has some of them already. Your DS is so far ahead of mine, it makes perfect sense to me that he'd have 1/3 or so.

But I'm just extrapolating...I know nothing for sure, of course.

We've never tried Aleks but since your son is a math kid how about trying AoPS? I am sure he would pass the "are you ready" test and it may provide lots of depth and challenge for him. You could always get the textbook and go through it or at least have him look at it and see what he thinks.

I wouldn't be surprised if he could do Algebra in 5 months. I would still look at AoPS though. He could get more out of it.

BTW I hope a few years from now you will have it all figured out and be able to tell me what's the best thing to do for Algebra LOL

I aksed this same question on the WTM boards, and was told that Aleks isn't "spine" worthy (to be used as the main resource for a course) and that it wasn't rigorous.

So...now I am worried again. I am considering getting a standard Algebra textbook, like Houghton-Mifflin, to be sure that he's really getting the depth he needs. I know that if he doesn't have a very solid handle on Algebra that the other upper-level math courses will be very difficult for him. I feel like I need an educational advisor or something.

Tara

Dottie, I appreciate your feedback.

There is a beginning algebra AOPS course starting in June but I fear that it will be a lot of review from the table of contents. What do you think? I just don't want to pay a ton of money for him if the first 10 weeks of 24 are review...but if it's going to REALLY reteach and solidify things, I would consider it.

I have another question but I'm going to PM or email you...

Tara

Have you seen the new group buy on Thinkwell through the homeschool buyer's co-op? They have several options for algebra, and they only cost about $56 each! Wowie zowie!

I'd like to assure you that I find the AoPS Introductory Algebra course EXTREMELY challenging. Mind you, my brain is re-learning Algebra as my kids are going through it, but the course is excellent, high level, fast-paced, with very challenging questions as extensions for every unit. DS was keeping up until Spring Break (not doing all of the challenge problems), but we're a bit behind now. Older DS in Algebra 2 couldn't solve the Introductory course challenge problems.

I appreciate your input because I've been doing a lot of research over the last few days.

I am seriously considering the AOPS Beginning Algebra text, and am going to have DS take the pre-test.

Is there any reason for me to wait for the June class? In other words, does the text have good enough explanations for a mathy kid to work through it on his own? I really would prefer not to wait 2 more months to start. The book excerpts I see online tend to be mostly the exercises/problems and solutions...I was looking for the part where the text explains a new concept.

Tara

Do the class.
AoPS works like that: you are asked to read the chapters ahead of time in preparation for the classroom time. Then you log on the computer for 1.5 hours each week to participate in the course. The key word here is PARTICIPATE. In order to do this your son will not only have to come up with the best approach to solving a particular problem, but also type it in really fast so his answer is the one that appears on the screen (the instructor chooses the answers he/she posts for all to see). This part is really tough, and I imagine the younger you are the tougher it would be.
After each class there are about 10 problems posted online for the registered students to work on. You should do this if you want to progress and become really good. After lesson number 2 the challenge test number one is released, that your child has about 4-6 weeks to work on his own (at home,not online), you submit it and the instructor writes back with detailed performance evaluation. Those test are very hard, trust me :-)

DS is currently taking Intro to Number Theory. He has taken previously Intro to Counting and Probablity, AMC 10 prep (very, very tough) and something else - forgot at this time. I am seriously considering for him to take Algebra 1 this summer, but our other plans might interfere:-) DS is currently in Algebra 2 and just turned 13. There is no way this class would be too easy for him, even though you might want to argue that he already knows the material. You need to have a look at AoPS books to really understand what their teaching method is all about.

Also, there is never really too much Algebra if you know what I mean:-)
Since you are not registered for the course, there is no way you can access the problems that the class is working on. Maybe CYM could cut and paste some of the examples? I don't now if this is legal though?

They do explain, but not in the way we are used to in our regular textbooks. AoPS teaches mostly through problem solving. They want YOU to figure out the way to arrive at the answer. If you do this, it is yours - you automatically understand why!

What if you don't see it though? I love problem solving as a teaching method, but I also think sometimes--especially for non-mathy kids--explanation helps.

For future reference (since we're not to AoPS level yet), do they explain concepts at all? And what do they do if someone isn't getting it? Is it going to be too hard for non-mathy kids?

I personally think that AoPS is not good for "non-mathy" kids.

Grom their website
I actually think that "strong" is an understatement here.
And it says it is "challenging" for "strong".

Good to know. Thanks.

Check this out:

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Books/Excerpts.pdf

Well, College Algebra will be different, since it should really contain Trig as well as Pre-calc.
If I am correct, DS did not touch at all on Logs or Binomials while going through Algebra 1 at school. And I am sure Rusczyk has you working on them in this book.

AoPS books are just different. You really should get your hands on one before investing the money - too bad we are not closer in distance, I have like 4 or 5 of them at home already :-)

My suggestion Dottie would be to forgo the Algebra text completely and look instead into the Art of Problem Solving - volume 1 - the Basics.
I am sure that I have already pointed out the Calculus Trap article :-) I again stress that point of view. This is coming from a mother whose child took Algebra as a 10 year old fifth grader.

Ania, thank you so much for your feedback on AOPS. It helped me to understand that I wasn't missing something in the exerpts; I just wasn't understanding the AOPS approach. Also, your input on just doing the text versus doing the class and the text was very helpful.

I'm still mulling over a few things, but the more I think about it, the more I think that our son would really benefit from this approach to math.

I'm going to give him the Intro to Algebra pre-test in the next week or so. I checked out the post-test, and I know he can't answer all of those questions. He can, however, answer all of the questions on the pre-test; at least, I know he has mastered those concepts and should be able to get correct answers!

Looking at the class outline, a lot of the topics are very familiar to him, but I think he needs more in depth exposure to them.

Dottie, my initial reaction to the price was that it is pretty steep, but in the grand scheme of things, it's probably completely reasonable. I'm just not used to spending hundreds of dollars on one course.

Tara

Remember that by paying for the course you get access to the class forum where the problems are posted and kids interact with each other. This is a very important aspect of the whole idea, especially for teenagers.
I am not saying it is cheap :-)

Going back to the original question: Aleks for Algebra.

I personally like Aleks because it is very structured - you know what is expected, you know what the consequences of wrong answers are, etc.

My 5th grade DD is doing Aleks for pre-algebra (not doing it very religiously though :-) and while she hates the fact that Aleks assessment takes her back a few points each time, she knows that she really has to understand the subject/problem matter. I will make sure she sticks with it for occasional after schooling. It is good for her.

My DS was jealous of his little sister taking an online class and he requested I sign him up last summer. I did. He had just completed Geometry at school that year and he wanted to sign up for Algebra 2. I said no, take the Geometry test first.
He did and he scored at about 55% of the Geometry pie. So he started doing the problems. And it was not easy! At school he did not cover all of the material that was covered by Alex. And he eventually gave up Aleks, choosing an AoPS class instead. I did not insist.

I think a person that will succeed with Aleks has to be very organized and very motivated. Mathy kids tend not to be like that :-)
My daughter does get bored with repetiveness (sp!) of Aleks, but AoPS is way above her at this point. Aleks is good. Aleks is for your "normal" smart child :-)

Also, I have to point out that I had absolutely no problems cancelling my DS's Aleks account. They did it within a few minutes. And like someone else said before, you can't beat the price ! So try it out for a month - and cancel if you do not like it. One word of wisdom - kids tend to LOVE it at first, but the affection goes away after a while.

I agree with Ania about the AoPS course being for Mathy kids. I would choose a different course for my not-so-mathy DS. AoPS is fast pace. The Text and solutions set come together, and the solution set shows you how to solve.

My younger kids are doing ALEKS at school. They do not progress fast and find it a little frustrating that if they don't score perfectly, they're kicked back (DS9 can be careless, but he'll usually gets all but one or two correct--he claims 100% needed to complete pie. I prefer 85% or even 90%, because he's definitely mastered concepts). Even though they can access it at home and during the summer, they have never elected to do so (despite Mom's encouraging it).

There are a lot of Algebra curricula out there with enormous range of prices. EPGY and JHU CTY are pretty costly, depending on how fast you can complete it (kids who do it as afterschool will pay more than a homeschooler who has more time to devote to it as their sole math class). AoPS course is about 1/3 the price of those and includes the text/solutions (EPGY required separate text purchase). We had more computer problems with EPGY than with AoPS (essentially no problems). EPGY however would be easier to negotiate credit for since there are grades and quizzes, homework, exams, etc. AoPS seems better suited for supplementing (my opinion).

Does anyone have experience with APEX learning comprehensive courses (Algebra 1 or 2)?

My problem is that I'm not yet sure if DS6 is mathy or not. He's two grades ahead, and concepts seem to come easily to him. Times table memorization is all that's slowing him down right now. But he's 5+ grades ahead in reading. So perhaps you can see why I'm not sure if he's mathy or not.

FWIW, I think he'll be a whiz at upper-level geometry, algebra and calculus. He has engineer written all over him! It's just a matter of getting through all the rest of it to get there...

I have lots of time, so I don't mean to clog up this thread. But especially since we're homeschooling, I'm keeping an eye out all the time for good curricula and programs!

Getting out of the way now. Thanks!

Thanks, Dottie. That helps, since our conversations have led me to believe that DS6 is at least somewhat similar to your DS.

I'll keep my eye on AoPS for the future!

Hey all,

I wouldn't go so far as to consider Aleks only for your "normal smart child".
I'm thinking it has more to do with personality. DD8 certainly isn't MG and she loves Aleks. She is also a very mathy person. Her personality is very focused and methodical. Aleks gives a choice when the child seems to have gotten a subject. They can go on to something else, or "master" the subject with a few more questions. DD8 is hilarious, she absolutley will not stop til she masters each subject. She doesn't do Aleks everyday, but when she does log on she goes at it for upwards of an hour or more sometimes. She likes it so much I went ahead and paid for the next six months.
I will probably look into Aops at some point because you all have posted favorable reviews.
DD5 who scored lower on IQ test, although I certainly wouldn't refer to her as normal smart either, wouldn't touch Aleks with a ten foot pole.

Neato

I like to have a book in my hand myself. I guess I'm a little old fashioned.



Neato

Dottie, thanks for ressurrecting this thread as I have been meaning to add something.

I had a look at the challenge set from Intro to Alg. The FIRST chalenge set, I might add. There are problems on it (I don't have it front of me so I can't give you exact numbers) that my DS is doing currently at school in his ALG 2 class ! I am so grateful for it, in a sense, since it has proved to my DS that yes indeed he should start Algebra courses at AoPS from Intro to Alg., even though he will be doing pre-calc at school.
Sadly, the school does not teach him much (as he has been always telling me).