Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Using state assessments for advocacy?

Hi
Has anyone used the (positive) results of their child's state assessments, coupled with finishing alot earlier than classmates, to advocate for subject acceleration? (45 minutes needed for 90 minute test, which includes being slow at output and taking the time to recheck 4 times per teacher's 4 prompting, then teacher checking to make sure DD did everything correctly, which she did).

The idea is that if DD can demonstrate proficiency "+" in 1/2 the time as her peers, the subject material is not challenging enough.

It's just an idea at this point and since it will take a while to put all the info together and then get a meeting I thought I'd start now.

That is plausible, but it generally recommended that students who ace grade-level tests take above-grade tests, such as the Explore for elementary school students and the SAT or ACT for middle school students, often as part of a talent search. If they do well enough on such tests, that suggests a need for subject acceleration. Previous threads have discussed "A", "B", and "C" groups based on test scores and acceleration options recommended for those groups.

In many Massachusetts schools, including my own, teachers and administrators ignore talent search results. Maybe your school is different.

From what I've seen, when a student exceeds state standards on state tests the teacher is more relieved than impressed, and it doesn't make the teacher wonder whether that particular student needs more. Like others have said, usually the state-mandated tests are grade-level tests and so only really test knowledge at or slightly-above grade level. A more useful test IMO is the MAP test, if your school administers that, because it is an above-level test that allows a student to show just how much they know (there's a really high ceiling) and can be used to compare a student to other students in higher grades.

I completely understand why you'd want to use your DD's testing experience to advocate, though. And, I see no harm in using her experience as a starting point in a discussion with her teacher. But I would then ask if your DD can be assessed with things like the MAP or end-of-grade tests for the next year up. If you're wanting to get some changes in place for next year then this is the ideal time to get the process started because it can be a months-long process. First the meeting, then the convincing, then the testing, then the convincing . . . .

o.O I proctor for our state assessment, and that kind of teacher behavior would be considered inappropriate (cheating) here. DD loves the state assessments, because the teacher can't tell her how to mark up her test booklet or send her back to recheck, the way the teacher does on the school-level interim testing. Ours aren't timed, either.

From watching a bunch of 5th graders test, the fastest kids do get done in about half the time it takes the slowest kids. But that doesn't necessarily mean the fastest kids need acceleration or that the slowest kids don't. Our assessments are strictly grade-level, and don't discriminate well at all between the top kids in the class, some of whom may benefit from acceleration and some of whom may not.

Thanks guys. I live in NYS. I agree they do an inordinate amount of prep. I don't believe they do the MAP here. Cricket3 seems like she'd know, I'm some distance behind in trying to get a handle on everything.

My DD would probably love to see that potato gun. What does it do? Does it shoot out potatoes for planting or is it more of a weapon idea? DD draws little creatures and makes up websites and writes the URLs in the margins in fancy lettering.

That's interesting, AlexsMom, about what the teacher did. I wasn't there but DD is pretty accurate with what's going on. It wouldn't be the first time something odd happened with us at this school.


She took the CTY last year (2nd grade) and qualified for verbal (math she missed by a couple of points). It didn't make any difference to the school. We had her tested in K and those KTEA >99th percentile scores coming into the school as a new student in Sept. 2010 didn't make any difference for placement. It didn't even prompt them to do their own assessments.

I thought in theory they might respect/care about their own state assessments more than the outside stuff.

They tell us informally at conferences about her reading level/fluency being so high "she doesn't have to get any better at it" and in "popcorn reading" her group has been reading the same book since Sept. I guess to make some sort of accommodation, they allow the kids who don't feel comfortable taking their turn reading out loud to hold up a sticky note that says they "choose" not to read out loud. DD of course grabs this chance (smirk smirk) and holds us her sticky note. For the multiplication timed tests, the teacher switched from written to oral after the 3x and they could "choose" which ones to be tested on and she kept choosing the 5x (smirk smirk).

So you can see it's a bit ridiculous, at least to me and probably quite a few parents who read this forum who are like-minded.

I've notice people discussing the EXPLORE and think it would be a good idea for next year. I don’t know if the school would pay attention but it would be a good, national gauge of where she is.

I think I'll plan on at least bringing up the topic of the assessments in the conference that we are planning to schedule before the end of school. She's supposed to have the same teacher next year per the loop system they do. I realize the bar is very low with these state assessments, but was hoping they "prove" something to the teacher since the school has been going on about the bar being raised per the adoption of the common core standards.


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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein

Hi
Our district would never use grade-level assessments for acceleration. They always seemed annoyed at my ds12 for finishing so fast on the test. I think the teacher worries that he blew the test. They actually tested him in a separate room for a few years to avoid distracting classmates finishing so fast. They do use the testing for grade-level placement and our GT Language Arts program.

In our district, the parents are a lot of helicopters and tigers running loose. They bug the administration non-stop about giving better placements. They do have smart and hard working kids, but they don't necessarily need acceleration. Our district sees a lot of >95%tile grade-level test. What the test doesn't show is my DS needs about an hour a week to do homework, his age mates need at least an hour a day. The spread in ability in the top 5 to 10% can be really wide especially on grade level testing with low ceilings.

In our experience more was better in asking for acceleration. We have done Explore, Scat, ACT, SAT, and IQ in the last 2 years. Thankfully DS likes testing otherwise I probably wouldn't have this much of it. It has been this overwhelming amount of information that made the school finally make some more radical decisions for DS. We had so much information for them in addition to their grade-level testing. The question we asked was the school was "If he doesn't qualify for acceleration then who would?" That seem to do the trick. The last 2 years of subject accelerations have been really successful. They listen more to us as his parents with each success.

Do you know if they have ever done acceleration before? Some schools seem to have a written policy allowing it, but never ever actually do it. Other school seem more open to it. Our school isn't anti-acceleration but they try hard to keep it low profile and under the radar as much as possible. They asked us not to say a thing about ds12's placement for next year. He will be in academic classes at the HS and non-academics at the MS(DS doesn't want miss out on a few extracurriculars and trips next year in MS.) They know people will figure it in fall but are hoping not to have a line of Copters & Tigers at the door before the year is over. They know the other kids don't have my DS's IQ and Achievement levels but they still have to meet and explain that to the other parents without disclosing our DS's information. I don't blame them for avoiding all that fun;). I can't stand listening to these parents at school gatherings. They all think they have the best and brightest without any sense that other kids are doing just as good if not better. I never say a thing to these parents about DS12. The school trusts we will not say a thing and my DS knows saying anything to his friends could jeopardize future accelerations. It's taken a while to get DS what he needs and I don't think grade-level testing would have ever gotten us where we are now. I don't want to sound discouraging but realistic. It can be a part of the picture you show them but you probably need more than just that. It's usually a long process of advocating, outside above grade-level testing, cognitive testing, and endless patience.

I would consider getting a well known out of grade-level test and maybe cognitive testing if you haven't previously do so. I would have an idea of what type of acceleration you think would fit your DD. We always know exactly what DS needs for levels. We often ask the school where they would ideally place him but we already know what we are looking for from them. It's easier to make your point if your specific about the needs. Ambiguous request seem to lead to lots of "enrichment" activities of extra work sheets on grade level or another reading about animals in Africa, when you actually need a bump up in math or writing.

Good Luck

One caveat about EXPLORE, it is an achievement test. For reading and writing, it probably will be a good gauge. If your child hasn't been exposed to advanced material, it may not provide much information re math. For example, my DD missed a math question that required the application of the Pythagorean theorem. She hadn't learned it yet so she had no idea how to solve the problem. (They covered it in school about a week later, Grrr). In this respect, it was a test of her knowledge base rather than her mathematical ability.

BTW, if they ignored her CTY and KTEA results, I wouldn't hold out too much hope that EXPLORE will sway them. Still, it can't hurt to gather more data. Repeated high results over time may eventually influence them as they did in Jtooit's situation. You also could use it for a DYS application if that applies.

It's not dismissive! I certainly didn't get results for years! It's only since only the last 2 years that I've really had their ear. It's trying to be realistic about the nature of the school system.

I think outside testing helped us realize what we were dealing. My DH and I had decided this year if they didn't choose something radical for DS we would pull him from the school. Status Quo was not going to continue.

I only recently did WISC-IV with DS. I was so worried about doing it and didn't really want to know the results. Boy I'm glad I did it. The school hardly looked at the IQ. They love to say the Cogat is his IQ despite the 20 point difference in the scores .

It was hugely helpful for me personally. I looked at DYS for 2 or 3 years wondering if DS really belong there. Was I also one of the wacko mom's over estimating DS? I questioned was he really EG/PG range? It's been a weight lifted off my shoulders to know exactly what I'm dealing with in DS. DH and I were neck deep in denial. We have no ND kids and no way to really see "normal." I'm a more confident and strong advocate form him being load with ammunition. I know now where he belongs and without doubting it! That is priceless for me.



I agree!!! The above grade level testing can be tricky. My school acknowledged the ACT more than the other test. He scored above the average for our graduating seniors. It's a little hard to ignore that. It can be super tricky with a younger child and the lack of exposure to material. They are achievement test. They need some kind exposure to do well on them whether it be formal or informal. It's unlikely your going to guess how to do the pythagorean theorem without exposure. It still can be a nice measure for you as parents to have the testing done. It may mean the current schooling just isn't going to cut for your DD.


Additional outside testing maybe ignored by the schools whether IQ or Achievement. It potential very helpful to you as her parent. It allows you the needs more and make decision for her with or without the schools help.

Hi cricket3 - you didn't seem dismissive to me, just realistic based on tiring experience.

We don't have the tigers here as much as the more outlying suburbs, the newer places. This is an older and more "established" neighborhood, so what we have are the core group of parents that are coptors but more pushy in an entitlement way, if you know what I mean. They run the PTA, are members of the school board, run the scout troups...there is a core group of kids that are in the pull-out enrichment regardless of intelligence level, they get the parts in the school plays and accommodations in school (not the proper IEP kind, just overlooking broken rules or not handing in homework, where a kid who is not in this core group with get the consequence). The same kids are on particular swim teams, dance troops, hockey and other sports teams. We have no hope of "getting in" it's not what I do, I'm not good at it and have never been able to pull that off.

Slow and steady and lots of meetings and data and patience is the route we'll have to stay on!

I haven't been able to find a grade acceleration policy yet, but it doesn't generally seem to be done. It used to be, judging from speaking with neighbors who have kids who are say 25+ but that seems to be a national trend. A couple of neighbors as well as the gentleman we bought the house from told us what they did with their kids from 6th grade + so it's given me some ideas to work toward.

Thanks for the additional info Jtooit and knute974. I did have the concern about the EXPLORE math since the math skills she is exposed to are very weak. I have books for the curriculum that the local Catholic schools use which is more advanced. And then just alot of ideas or resources for what more robust curriculums include. I try to work with her during the school year but it's hard so we'll do stuff in the summer. If I can get the right approach for math for her she picks it up just fine. We have alot of work to do. She's not a mathy whiz like alot of kids on this forum seem to be, but she can be quite competent, given proper instruction.

I can tell she really doesn't know her multiplication tables very well yet. They only did a minimum amount, the teacher said, to address what would be on the assessment.

They've moved on to little division word problems and I could tell right away she is still weak on multiplication. But she does her usual context-clues and reasoning to work it out (but she can only do this because the problems are quite easy). For example, one was about 7 kids building toy cars and there are 28 wheels, how many wheels does each child get?

They have to write the division equation and the multiplication equation and do a little picture etc. I said, this problem is asking you what you have to multiply 7 by to get 28, do you know what it is?

She said "no, but obviously the answer is 4, because how else are the kids going to get their cars to roll correctly?" And it goes on like that.

Thanks again for all the info. I'll see what this year end brings, what they seem to have in mind for 4th grade and go from there. While she often says she really hates school, the idea of homeschooling doesn't appeal to her. Switching schools for 4th/5th doesn't make too much sense since we don't have an alternative that would be worth the trouble and $$. We're aiming for a change for 6th grade and trying to keep her on some sort of decent track until then.

We put alot of time and effort into outside activities and at least her city music group is a place that is "forcing" her to become more disciplined. She actually has to go through the process of learning, making a bunch of mistakes, practicing, trying again, making less mistakes, etc. They are pretty tough and they can pick out the kids who've gotten used to, at school, getting A's for showing up on time.

I don't understand why even younger children who take the SAT or ACT should not do some preparation. The SAT Official Study Guide costs about $10, and it has sample tests in addition to a guide to the material tested. Why not review what's on the test and do at least one sample test? My 8yo has worked through the Math Study Guide of Richard Corn. I'll have him take a sample SAT at home. When/if he scores 700 on the sample math section in a few years, I will have him take SAT for real to qualify for the Study of Exceptional Talent.