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    #13281 - 04/07/08 07:07 PM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: newtothis]
    squirt Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/31/08
    Posts: 323
    Loc: Back in Texas, alas!
    "Yes, his previously bad preschool behavior was directly correlated to lack of challenge"

    How do you know that they were correlated? I'm trying to decide if the angry, rebellious, obnoxious behavior I'm seeing at home (everything is wonderful everywhere else!) is related to boredom/lack of challenge at school. My son is 6 and in 1st grade. He's reading at 4th level and the teacher only lets him read middle 2nd. I don't have any idea what level math he can do but at school he's doing single digit subtraction and addition. Teacher has been unwilling to make ANY changes. My son says that school is "okay". He likes PE, Recess, art, music the best.

    My goal: happy, healthy, responsible, ready to think and tackle what life hands him. He has so many interests but with being in school 7 hours a day and already doing piano, karate, and soccer, we have very little time for play and exploring and learning Roman numerals and stuff that interests him. He also wants to add boy scouts and gymnastics.

    My ideal school would be one that grouped kids together (regardless of age, like the old one-room schoolhouse) and let them learn at their own rate maybe 4 hours a day. Then, we could play and explore and add activities. I know I'm chiming in late here, and I couldn't figure out how to make the quote thing work, so I just copied and pasted. I'm really interested in what made you so sure the behavior was linked to school.

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    #13283 - 04/07/08 07:31 PM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: squirt]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    In our case, it was really obvious. Our DS6 came home from 1st grade on his first day of full-day school, threw down his backpack and said, "I'm *never* going back! If you make me go back to 1st grade, then I won't go to 2nd grade because it will be even LONGER and MORE BORING!!!"

    He had been sunny and easygoing his whole life, but his personality changed drastically as soon as school started. He began to get in trouble in school, something that our highly rule-oriented son would never have done before; he'd have rather died than get in trouble in preschool or half-day K. His greatest source of pride in K was that his behavior traffic light never went to yellow, let alone red, for the entire year. Missing recess because of bad behavior? That was a serious cry for help! We pulled him out to home school, and his personality returned to pleasant almost immediately. It was like magic!

    Basically, if the challenge increases and the behavior improves, you know that there's a direct correlation.
    _________________________
    Kriston

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    #13285 - 04/07/08 08:43 PM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: Kriston]
    cym Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/01/06
    Posts: 865
    Loc: southwest
    happy kids, inspired with a lifelong love of learning, interesting, well-rounded individuals, caring of others and the world around them, opening opportunities for them to pursue their passions or even experiment with topics of interest. Probably a hundred other general goals.

    I make up specific goals for each kid each semester. As they get into high school, goals seem to focus more on college opportunities (and soon I'll be thinking merit scholar stuff). I know this sounds awful, but once we found out how bright the boys were, we discussed the facts of cash. 4 boys & college is a lot. I haven't thought it through but on some level there's the goal of getting them a great college education for a great price. Another goal as they get into middle school age/maturity is maximizing interaction with true peers (whether it's talent search summer institutes, great gifted schools that some of you have available, YS Summit, etc.) so they can have intellectual discourses that I think is so important in building character and personality (or at least it was to me). Less lofty than true challenge, is that I want them to be placed in classes that aren't a waste of time, don't turn them off to school, make them obnoxious, moody teenagers, because I really think they behave better when they're thrilled by something educational (may be associated with self esteem?).

    Great topic--sorry I'm in such a rush.

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    #13286 - 04/07/08 09:17 PM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: squirt]
    alee31 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 11/02/07
    Posts: 37
    Loc: Texas
    Originally Posted By: squirt
    "Yes, his previously bad preschool behavior was directly correlated to lack of challenge"

    How do you know that they were correlated?


    We suspected the same type of problem with our son, who was 4 at the time. He attended a Montessori program at 3, and returned to the same classroom at 4. The first year was fantastic. He went usually 3 days a week and loved it. But the second year was not good at all. Every time I picked him up he seemed depressed, sad, frustrated. I could never put my finger on it for a few months, but I could clearly see it was related to school. My main concern was that he had lost his little "spark" and no longer seemed interested in learning. I would ask leading questions which required some sort of explanation or detailed answers, which he would answer quite well for a 4 year old. Still couldn't figure it out. Then we had a fall conference with the teacher. She basically told us he was a huge behavior problem, was the "class clown," was "completely unproductive" and was a "borderline significant problem."

    We were STUNNED. Our child has been very easy to parent until this point. He is happy, confident, friendly, easy-going, and very flexible. We have never had behavior issues, and we did not see ANY of this at home. Furthermore, the teacher went on to imply that he was autistic or had some other developmental issues.

    We withdrew him as soon as we could, a few weeks later. After what I would call a period to unwind, he finally returned to himself. We decided to gently ease into homeschooling, and signed him up for a local mother's day out program two half-days a week for some old-fashioned play time. It was a great combination. His little spark returned, and now he is the happy child I once knew.

    In the midst of our struggles, we decided to pursue formal testing. It was then that we discovered that our "bright" four year old was functioning at the level of an eight year old in regards to IQ (SB5). After meeting with a psychologist several times and pursuing other achievement testing, as well, we realized he was probably completely bored in a classroom that he was in last year, even though he should have been exposed to more "advanced" subject matter. He likely mastered everything available to him last year as the youngest in a 3/4/5 class and was simply ready to move on.

    It was a huge wake-up call for us. Although it was a rough couple of months, we are grateful for the experience. We knew he was an intelligent child, but we did not just how far ahead of the curve he really is.

    It was very clear to us that his behaviors were directly correlated with boredom and a complete lack of challenge in his school environment.

    Now we are doing well and looking forward to homeschooling, which is the only option we can see that is appropriate for our area. There is not a school around that will allow him to skip kinder/first grade to jump into second or third, which is where he would be more appropriately placed. We gave up the battle and decided to homeschool instead.

    Good luck to you. I know it's tough. We've been there and it was a very stressful time.

    Just keep listening to that mother's intution. smile I'm learning more and more to trust my own.

    Warm regards,
    Allison

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    #13288 - 04/08/08 05:06 AM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: squirt]
    Dazed&Confuzed Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/05/08
    Posts: 1815
    [quote=squirt]"Yes, his previously bad preschool behavior was directly correlated to lack of challenge"

    How do you know that they were correlated? I'm trying to decide if the angry, rebellious, obnoxious behavior I'm seeing at home (everything is wonderful everywhere else!) is related to boredom/lack of challenge at school. My son is 6 and in 1st grade. He's reading at 4th level and the teacher only lets him read middle 2nd. I don't have any idea what level math he can do but at school he's doing single digit subtraction and addition. Teacher has been unwilling to make ANY changes. My son says that school is "okay". He likes PE, Recess, art, music the best.

    My goal: happy, healthy, responsible, ready to think and tackle what life hands him. He has so many interests but with being in school 7 hours a day and already doing piano, karate, and soccer, we have very little time for play and exploring and learning Roman numerals and stuff that interests him. He also wants to add boy scouts and gymnastics.
    quote]

    OK, are we sharing the same kid? Except mine is 7yrs old in 2nd grade. I'm trying to decide the same thing. I don't know why it's so hard to trust my instincts on this one - I guess I fear being one of those parents who thinks her child is so smart etc...what if it's just poor behavior due to poor parenting? Not talking about you Squirt, referring to myself.

    I figure my big test will be this summer....if the spark and love of learning returns, I'll know it was school. At that point I'll decide about HSing.

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    #13289 - 04/08/08 05:27 AM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: Dazed&Confuzed]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    I'm not going back to look, so maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but didn't you have testing done, Dazed? Weren't the scores quite high?

    A test is just a child's performance on one test on one day, but when combined with other hints like what you have observed and school behavior, it adds up to a more complete picture of where the child is operating on that Bell Curve.

    I suspect that what you're experiencing, Dazed, is what we around here call "GT denial." It's the feeling that your child doesn't seem like one of "those" outrageously smart kids you see on the news or on Oprah, so there must be some mistake, ala "I knew he was a bright kid, but something must be wrong with his scores on the achievement test; they were much higher than I expected!"

    But HG+ kids come in all flavors, and some are more stealthy about their abilities than others. Especially if you come from a GT family, what's "normal" to you may well be HG+!

    Hang in there, and you will get past that dreaded GT denial (well, mostly, at least). I still wrestle with it some days, but I'm so much less deeply in denial than I was when this journey started for us! Scores on tests help. Reading about HG+ kids helps. Talking and reading this forum helps.
    _________________________
    Kriston

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    #13299 - 04/08/08 10:47 AM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: squirt]
    LMom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/14/07
    Posts: 902
    Originally Posted By: squirt

    My ideal school would be one that grouped kids together (regardless of age, like the old one-room schoolhouse) and let them learn at their own rate maybe 4 hours a day. Then, we could play and explore and add activities.


    Wouldn't that be fantastic? No age based classrooms and a half a day schedule? Why do people think that spending 7 hours at school is the way to go? Sometimes less is more.
    _________________________
    LMom

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    #13307 - 04/08/08 01:25 PM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: Kriston]
    alee31 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 11/02/07
    Posts: 37
    Loc: Texas
    Originally Posted By: Kriston
    I suspect that what you're experiencing, Dazed, is what we around here call "GT denial."


    This was me a few months ago!!

    I think it takes a little while to come out of it sometimes. Even after the scores we would say, "Well, maybe he'll still love kindergarten." And then we'd sort of slap ourselves in the face and wake up a bit and realize how unfair that would be to DS5.


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    #13326 - 04/08/08 03:49 PM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: Kriston]
    Dazed&Confuzed Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/05/08
    Posts: 1815
    Kriston, I've read, and re-read, and re-read your post today. Yes he had the WISCIV. Yes VCI was 148. But then I started thinking "so he knows a bunch of words, what does it mean?" A friend said that the psych said something like "He takes in information like a 6th grader but the pace of a 2nd grade classroom." So I'm mulling over that. lol. Well Dh and I are both scientists and DS's passion is science and math so I guess the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

    EXACTLY! I guess I have a picture in my mind of what a HG child is like, and it's not him lol. I know he's advanced and can make connections and deal with abstract topics in chemistry and physics quite well. But how much is exposure and how much is *giftedness* I don't know.

    Also, I don't know that I see much changing at school. I think alot of it is his personality. School is too structured. Several have commented that I make home too exciting w/ doing chemistry experiments, physics experiments, history (which he asks to return to but w/ school and a 4.5yr old and 15mth old I can't seem to find the time), LEGO Mindstorms, teaching him math at his level....who would want to go to school?


    I guess the first step is admitting we have a problem.....


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    #13330 - 04/08/08 04:28 PM Re: What IS the goal?? [Re: Dazed&Confuzed]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    ROFL! So true!

    If you're already admitting the problem, then you're a very quick learner. I saw DS6's achievement test scores about 7 months ago now, he's had an IQ test that confirmed the scores, he's even been admitted to DYS, yet I still have days when I think..."Really? Not MG? Huh."

    laugh
    _________________________
    Kriston

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