Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment identical twins, one identified and one not

Hello! This is my first post here.

I have identical twin boys in the 1st grade at our local public school. Their older sister has been identified as "Superior Cognitive" and attends a charter school for gifted students. My boys' MAP test scores have always been higher than my daughter's very high scores, and they seem to yearn for challenges (especially in math) more than she ever has, so I requested that they be tested.

The scores came back showing a 7 point Full Scale IQ difference between the boys. The one missed qualifying by 4 points. This is the one, though, who had a MUCH higher MAP score for math -- the highest in his class. The district gifted coordinator said she doubted he would qualify on a retest, given his scores.

Both boys have articulation problems and are in speech therapy through school and though a private clinic. The son who did not qualify is shy, more aware of his speech issues, and is more insecure about everything. He has always been this way. I can't help but think his performance on the test has something to do with this. This is a kid who gets anxious if he doesn't do math, and asks for math pages and workbooks to calm himself. He took his sister's 4th grade math workbook and started doing the pages, just for fun.

What do you think? Have any of you experienced something similar? Should I retest? I can't imagine putting one twin into the program and keeping the other out, especially the one who is already so insecure. But I can't justify withholding enrichment opportunities from the one who qualified...

That sounds like a tough spot. I would continue to trust yourself and your ideas regarding your children. It sounds like your more anxious one may really benefit from private testing with someone versed in getting the best scores from children. My DD is very aware of what people expect and will respond accordingly. Will your school accept private testing? Silverman of the Gifted Development Center has found that siblings are often within five points..I would research what she has with identical twins. Good Luck

It is possible that the decision makers will see thinks your way. I would be firm about them not taking one without the other if you belive them to be equally gifted. I would strongly suggest private testing for the shyer one and treatment if his anxiety levels are clinically significant. Choose a tester who is willing to get on the phone with the school and state your case strongly.

If you can travel to get to someone who authentically gets highly gifted kids. Dr Ed Amend is a good choice if you can get to Kentucky or Ohio. Sometimes our kids can be uncanny when it comes to gauging others perspectives. Particularly if the perspectives are negative.

Best wishes
Grinity

Thank you so much for your input. The district coordinator is the decision maker. She is the one who said she doubted he would qualify on a retest. She said she knows it's a tough spot, but all kids are different, etc. I'm not sure she really understands that it's a tougher spot than it is with regular siblings.

I think another issue here is that she knows we pulled our daughter from the district school and put her in a charter school for gifted students. She probably guesses that if both our sons qualified, we'd put them in the charter school as well.

Our insecure twin doesn't seem to have significant anxiety in general, but gets anxious and atsy on days where there is no school and he doesn't get his math fix! But he is a sensitive little guy and certainly could pick up on the attitudes of the adults around him.

I will look up Dr. Amend. We could travel to the Cincinnati area for testing. I'm so grateful for your thoughts, both of you. So glad to have found these forums.

It is a hard spot to be in...and I'm currently in it too with my identical boys. One is the showy, tell everyone the answer and make it known he's "smart" kinda 5 year old, the other is the shy, reserved, hide if someone is paying attention to me kinda 5 year old who can do the same amount of work or more than his twin but the teachers never see it or testers. (He had hidden that he could read from his teacher until last month, until I told the teacher at the teacher conference, just by simply not ever saying anything in reading time)
I would agree with the others, I would look for private testing for your shy one (if the school will possibly accept it). A tester that is experienced with gifted children of all types will be able to work from the right angles to allow the child to open up. The GDC does say what flower said about how siblings often being within 5 (ish) points. They recommended I watch my twins very carefully for signs after testing my oldest (PG) son.
It's so hard when the options differ between the two, especially with identicals because it just doesn't work to say " well let him go into this, or advance in this...but leave the other behind..." I'm not willing to do anything like that as emotionally it affects my twins both so much and my shy one needs to know his brother is near and being treated the same, especially in these younger ages so I don't envy your position right now. Good lucK!

I'd also look into private testing. And I'd also look into exactly how the determination for entry to the gifted school is made - is it only based on IQ or is it based on a matrix of several factors including IQ?

I'll also throw something else out there - just re something to consider if your ds isn't able to get into the magnet school. We have three children, our oldest is EG, youngest is HG+, both are 2e, and our middle dd is either MG or not gifted depending on which IQ test she's had in which year, and she struggles with math. It's pretty danged obvious in talking to any of them where their IQs fall relative to each other... so three very different kids with different needs. We chose to split them all up into three different schools. Not the most practical solution but it's made a world of difference in eliminating any kinds of comparisons between each and instead giving them each their own opportunity to shine for who they are without being in the shadow of a sibling. In addition to the three schools, we've done our best to make sure that their after-school activities are based on their individual passions, and not on what's easiest to group them all into together.

I hope you don't have to do the separate schools - but if you do, there are ways to make it work.

Hang in there!

polarbear

I think you should remember that IQ tests and other cognitive tests are influenced by a child's mood and the ability of the tester. It's possible your one son was simply having a bad day. So I do think you should pursue your options for getting your son into the program-- even if it means retesting next year and getting him in, or trying to get private testing. I was in a similar position.

I have fraternal twin boys finishing up 4th grade. Our district has a highly gifted program and one tested in for 1st grade and the other missed the cutoff by two percentage points. There was no swaying the decision by the officials to let both boys into the program, as the 2-point difference wasn't close enough in their opinion. (I disagree.) I shed a lot of tears but ultimately, we couldn't deny one of the boys the opportunity to accelerate and learn at his own pace. He was an outlier in kindergarten in a way his twin was not and it's inconceivable that we would have denied him the opportunity. We just realized he has qualifying scores for DYS and we're in the process of applying.

My other son has a learning disability (undiagnosed until 2nd grade), is also highly gifted and is so socially gifted that his nickname is "The Mayor." The fact that he wasn't in the HGT program bothered him for quite a while but after his disability was diagnosed, it made a lot more sense to him and to us. After years of back and forth, the district has agreed to accept my son's outside test scores and admit him into the HGT program. But at this point, neither my son nor I think the HGT program will work for him. He's doing fine with the gifted pull-outs in a traditional classroom and when he moves to middle school, we'll put him in the gifted middle school with his brother. Frankly, he does not want to be in the same classroom as his brother, and I can't blame him.

I think you should search out a gifted tester who could also help advocate for you. I think that's what ultimately convinced our district to accept my 2nd twin into the program-- they really could not justify denying him a spot in the program in light of his IQ scores.

Still, it's been 4 years that we've had to deal with the different programs. In case you're in this position next year, some other things we've done to manage it in our family: We encourage separate interests where they can each shine. We don't put value judgements on the program-- instead we value each child's work ethic. We emphasize process rather than the outcome, risk-taking, taking responsibility for learning vs. just doing well on a test.

Of course we never say "you're so smart" to either boy, (or to my dd, who recently qualified for the HGT program with even high scores than her brother). But we encourage and praise them for pursuing passion projects and doing their best.

I think that this is what it all boils down to...if a sibling, twin, identical or otherwise, has needs that the other sibs just don't have, then it's fine for the one with the needs to get the special program, even if it's a private school that costs the family a ton of money that can't be spent on the othert kids. If the difference is 'real' then everyone in the family will be aware of it to some degree, no matter what the test scores say.

If the children are essentially 'the same' with regard to their learning needs, then, even if the tests say otherwise, it's not ok to let one into a program but not the other, even if that's what the school wants to do. Most identical twins will have very similar levels of IQ unless there was environment influence on one that didn't affect the other. Having different temperments that lead to IQ being difficult to show is quite common, although the difference is usually small. As parents we try and figure out our children's strength and weaknesses, and find environments that will help each child develop the best outcome for that individual child. We believe that environment matters, otherwise we'd just leave all our kids in the regular educational system. But we see kids who 'overcome' poor fit environments on a regular basis. Life is quite complicated, and none of us has crystal ball, or knows all the variables in even one situation - still we step into the future, doing the best we can with what we know at the time.

Smiles,
Grinity

You know, something just occurred to me - I wonder if this isn't an issue that this school has run into previously? I can think of at least three sets of parents here in our area who had the same issue when their twins were tested for GT program admission, and the twins who didn't qualify at first *did* get in. I *think* (but don't know for sure) that in each case the twins were offered alternative ability tests, and suspect that the GT program staff were sensitive to concerns from the parents that the children be placed together in the program. I'm just wondering if you've tried to appeal in person and were told an absolute "no way", or if you've asked about additional testing, or if you've asked if they'd consider a conditional placement, where twin #2 is admitted to the program and then allowed to stay as long as he shows he can keep up (which I'm guessing he'd have no problem with). The conditional placement is something that a ds of one of my friends in another state was offered when her ds' teacher thought her ds was a good fit for a GT magnet but his ability scores weren't quite high enough to qualify.

Just putting a few more ideas out there - I tend to always take the first "no" as *the* final answer, then realize later that many parents don't stop at the first "no" and are able to get services for their kids.

Best wishes,

polarbear

It has been a long time but I wanted to circle back and thank all of you. I think we are going to have our more insecure son retested, and we'll probably also test our youngest child too. I am losing my mind driving back and forth between two different schools (but three schedules/programs) this year -- I need to either get them all at one school, or home school some so I have only one schedule to deal with.

I think funding has been cut from our school district's gifted program to a degree that they are not especially interested in identifying any students below 3rd grade. I have not been especially impressed by my experiences with the gifted program for my daughter or my sons, so far. Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions -- it's very encouraging.