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    Originally Posted by aculady
    It took me a few days to be able to write a semi-rational response to this...

    I have to admit, I'm still not there with being able to write a semi-rational response! But fwiw, I second and agree with everything aculady said, and have experienced it first-hand as well in our school district.

    I don't for one minute feel any sadness or frustration over the services someone else's child is receiving - I am happy for the kids who have services because I have yet to see a child receive services that aren't desperately needed. I also think that perhaps we are so focused on the extreme ends of intellectual prowess here at this forum, that we forget that the vast multitude of families parenting kids who fall into the big bubble of average on the bell curve, also have many similar frustrations with school.

    polarbear

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    I would like to add one additional thought to this conversation:

    My first job out of college (Elementary/Special Education) was helping launch a transition team to help Special Education students make the transition between high school and viable work after high school.

    It took 8 months to teach one student how to perform his job functions at a local chain restaurant - selecting a knife, a large fork, a salad fork and a spoon and then rolling them into a cloth napkin. But at the end of that 8 months, he knew how to do his job with perfection and worked there for almost 10 years instead of spending his days in a group home or a bedroom in his parent's home. His IQ was around 65. Other students were taught to peel and core apples at a bakery, detail cars at an auto dealer, and bag groceries at a grocery store. I taught them how to ride the bus, clock in and out, and manage specific behaviors that were a problem in the work place.

    I've spent time, energy, tears, and effort at both ends of the spectrum. Both have unique challenges that require parents to spent countless hours not only fighting for the appropriate accommodations but more energy at home working with their child to aim for the best possible outcome.

    I have the utmost respect to parents who give a da**, get involved in their kid's education, and fight for better options and outcomes - no matter whether their child has an IQ of 60, 100, or 200.

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    Originally Posted by ABQMom
    It took 8 months to teach one student how to perform his job functions at a local chain restaurant - selecting a knife, a large fork, a salad fork and a spoon and then rolling them into a cloth napkin. But at the end of that 8 months, he knew how to do his job with perfection and worked there for almost 10 years instead of spending his days in a group home or a bedroom in his parent's home. His IQ was around 65. Other students were taught to peel and core apples at a bakery, detail cars at an auto dealer, and bag groceries at a grocery store. I taught them how to ride the bus, clock in and out, and manage specific behaviors that were a problem in the work place.

    This training does work for low-IQ people. Once they (finally) get the hang of it, they are quite able to do it.

    It just takes a lot of time to get them to that point and it is better than a group home or in the parents' home.

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    Originally Posted by JonLaw
    Originally Posted by ABQMom
    It took 8 months to teach one student how to perform his job functions at a local chain restaurant - selecting a knife, a large fork, a salad fork and a spoon and then rolling them into a cloth napkin. But at the end of that 8 months, he knew how to do his job with perfection and worked there for almost 10 years instead of spending his days in a group home or a bedroom in his parent's home. His IQ was around 65. Other students were taught to peel and core apples at a bakery, detail cars at an auto dealer, and bag groceries at a grocery store. I taught them how to ride the bus, clock in and out, and manage specific behaviors that were a problem in the work place.

    This training does work for low-IQ people. Once they (finally) get the hang of it, they are quite able to do it.

    It just takes a lot of time to get them to that point and it is better than a group home or in the parents' home.


    This is awesome! ABQ Mom, you sound super cool! Thanks for all that you do!!!


    ~ Christine smile
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    I remember being very sad when I found out that "appropriation education" in our public school was a lie. My son could not get OT for dysgraphia because he was too smart to fail and they would not let him learn at the advanced level he was capable of. The state gifted coordinator's office said there was nothing they could do, that I would have to get our state law changed. We had no real choice but to homeschool.

    My adult daughter went to public school and did not get a good education but it did not take away the innate ability to learn faster than a lot of other people. It did not take away her ability to learn on her own what she needed to know. She was able to easily get jobs that normally required a college degree because she learned quickly and could make better scores on tests than the college educated people. She worked at different jobs until she had the right experience. That experience combined with her excellent social skills is what makes her successful.

    I think a lot of people with disabilities would have trouble getting good jobs without help and I would rather they get that help when funding is limited. My son's disabilities, which will probably continue to cause some chronic pain as an adult, should still be able to get a good job with his dysgraphia and pain if he gets a good education. I do wish our family could keep some of the money that we spend on taxes so that we could afford to do more to help our son with his disabilities and education. We are middle class and not poor enough to get help from the government and not rich enough to be able to afford help.

    I am hoping that my daughter does end up marrying the millionnaire she is dating so she won't have to worry about school problems when she has kids.


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    Originally Posted by ABQMom
    It took 8 months to teach one student how to perform his job functions at a local chain restaurant - selecting a knife, a large fork, a salad fork and a spoon and then rolling them into a cloth napkin. But at the end of that 8 months, he knew how to do his job with perfection and worked there for almost 10 years instead of spending his days in a group home or a bedroom in his parent's home. His IQ was around 65. Other students were taught to peel and core apples at a bakery, detail cars at an auto dealer, and bag groceries at a grocery store. I taught them how to ride the bus, clock in and out, and manage specific behaviors that were a problem in the work place.

    I doubt that public school teachers can better prepare low-IQ youths for these jobs than the employers can themselves. Subsidizing apprenticeships would likely be more effective than spending ever-greater amounts on special education.


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Originally Posted by ABQMom
    It took 8 months to teach one student how to perform his job functions at a local chain restaurant - selecting a knife, a large fork, a salad fork and a spoon and then rolling them into a cloth napkin. But at the end of that 8 months, he knew how to do his job with perfection and worked there for almost 10 years instead of spending his days in a group home or a bedroom in his parent's home. His IQ was around 65. Other students were taught to peel and core apples at a bakery, detail cars at an auto dealer, and bag groceries at a grocery store. I taught them how to ride the bus, clock in and out, and manage specific behaviors that were a problem in the work place.

    I doubt that public school teachers can better prepare low-IQ youths for these jobs than the employers can themselves. Subsidizing apprenticeships would likely be more effective than spending ever-greater amounts on special education.

    Do you seriously know an employer that would be willing to pay any amount at all to spend 8 months teaching someone how to do what is only a very small part of a "normal" job description? The only way these kids were taken in by these employers is because there were tax subsidies for being a part of the transitional program. This is such a better use of tax dollars than the money that used to go into supporting institutions that locked these kids away for life.

    Where your idea works great is with kids at the opposite end of the spectrum. Our high school offers gifted kids an opportunity to explore mentorships with local employers in a field of interest. Not only does it give the kids some real-world experience, it supplements what can often be a fairly unchallenging academic program at school.

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    My daughter's school found a way to meet the needs of both high achieving and cognitively impaired students. Each child in the district who meets one or other of the sets of criteria attend the same school for differentiated education. The two groups of students work together to achieve common goals and the district benefits greatly.
    I don't know why every county in the country doesn't have one of these schools. Everyone deserves an education and symbiosis is possible!

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    Originally Posted by master of none
    Again, I apologize. I think it's time for a break from the forum.

    I do find your messages informative, since you have experience with how special ed works. Thanks.


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Originally Posted by master of none
    Again, I apologize. I think it's time for a break from the forum.

    I do find your messages informative, since you have experience with how special ed works. Thanks.


    masterofnone - I was thinking the same thing (on the apologies and forum break.) Holy Cow, do I know how to start a discussion or what? wink I do think your messages are informative as well!
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your understanding.



    ~ Christine smile
    Homeschooling DD in PA
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