Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy "defiance" and "not listening" UPDATED

Perhaps not like little stones, but like listening children. By the time they are 8, most typically developing children can sit and pay attention for 8 minutes or so to receive instruction, and look like they are paying attention. Perhaps with a few bobbles, but basically engaged.

From what you've said here, I think what the teachers and scout leaders are telling you is that your DD is not able (or not willing) to join the group and do what the group is doing, as her peers can/do. Yes, this task is harder if the instruction is beneath her level, but it's likely that some things come up that she doesn't know, and surely at scouts there are interesting projects. What I'm hearing is that she is rarely engaged in group settings with peers.

All these people are identifying a real concern, probably not to protect their authority, but because they see a problem. You can choose to ignore all of them and use giftedness as an excuse/explanation, but it is likely better for your DD if you follow up and try to address the concern.

DeeDee

FWIW I agree with everything DeeDee said. We all run into teachers every now and then who are "the problem" (even nd kids have teachers here and there that don't engage them), but anytime you have feedback about behavior from the teacher it is worth trying to understand it from the teachers perspective. When you have more than one teacher/adult group leader giving you the same feedback it's most likely not somethng coming out of left field due to the teacher being the "problem".

It's also really easy as the parent of HG/EG kids to jump straight to "bored" and "quirky" as the reason our kids are perceived to have behavior challenges or other issues at school and elsewhere. Sometimes that is the issue, but sometimes in jumping into assuming that we miss what's really going on.

Also re the nail coloring - if your dd likes to fidget while she listens, that's something that I would think should be acceptable - our kids' schools have no problem with letting kids hold a squishy ball, things Iike that while listening. They probably wouldn't let a child color her nails - while it might not be a problem for *your* child it would cause a huge distraction for my child who is trying to listen -she'd see the coloring, would want to do that too, she'd know that she can't because the teacher doesn't let want kids to color their nails during class... And pretty soon she would be missing a ton of what the teacher was talking about because she's focusing on your dd. My guess is that's one piece of what's up with the teacher not wanting your dd to color her nails.

Re you'd dd behaving ok at home - remember that at home she's in her environment, she's comfy, she's got attention, shes secure and feels loved and perhaps feels in control. many of our kids will display different behaviors at school than at home.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I agree with Deedee and Polarbear. To expand, maybe ask the teacher to give a list of "types" of things aren't acceptable and then ask for what is acceptable. For example, I think a lot of us and our kids were rampant doodlers on our folders/book covers or whatever. Find something that isn't considered distracting. I do think some kids want to be doing things that are physical to focus. I've been told my DD11 would constantly draw things during lessons when she was in Montessori. They would think she wasn't listening but she would end up retaining the lesson. Sometimes she doodled a picture that represented the lesson. I figured it was more personality than anything vs being gifted.

Personally, I don't think gifted and bored is an excuse for disrespectful or defiant behavior. This is a problem that needs to be approached from both sides, the teacher who may need to find more engaging and/or challenging material and the child who will have to learn to cope with being bored at times. As a pp mentioned, there will be times in life when they will be bored, I'd also like to know what job or field to go into where I would never suffer from boredom. lol

I also agree that this seems to be a reoccuring problem in group settings that may need to be further looked into.

well...how you MAKE someone FAKE like they are listening and paying attention in the classroom setting?

I do think the majority of this is boredom. I'd say she's probably about 90%, if not higher. She only has 3 chapters of the math book to finish and that was supposed to last the whole school year...she's not even finding the science experiments interesting anymore. Please bear in mind that I"m sure she is getting minimum standard instruction (not GT level) and our state is 46th our of 50 for standards. It's so sadly low...

But, even with boredom factored in or out, I agree that she needs to learn how to play the game...but HOW...HOW do you, not only teach them to do it, but make them WANT to do it?

According to developmental behavior, she doesn't have any AS, autism, ADHD, ODD...nothing...no "reason" to do this except boredom or willfullness.

Personally, I feel like, if the teacher thinks this is a problem, the teacher should be addressing it in the classroom, but there don't seem to be any consequences for this...it's like at the last school, I feel like the teachers are tattling on her and expect me to do something about it, but I don't know what...

This is what I was addressing with my reply to you. Not that I don't think kids should be respectful, but what about coloring nails quietly in class isn't respectful. That seems a lot more about the teacher wanting to control the class rather than teach the class.

When I doodled in class, it was for one of two reasons - either I was bored out of my mind or I was concentrating on what was being said and the doodling helped drown out other distractions. Your child can't be the first kid to doodle or draw on herself in class, and it's not the same as disrupting class.

The only way I could find to work with my kids was to find "currency" that mattered to them. I either offered a bribe of sorts for something that wanted to work towards or threatened to remove something they dearly loved in order to get them to work on compliant behavior. For my kids, the only currency that worked was allowing them to be part of the sports team after school that they loved or threatening that they had to take a break if their grades or behavior reports suffered. But that's lousy, too, because it takes one thing they love and builds negative feelings around it.

Some kids learn to play the game better than others, and the more we can teach our kids to adapt to their surroundings, the easier some situations will be for them. But I also have made peace with the fact that within certain limits, I'm ok with my kids not conforming to everything. That will also serve them well in life - the people who ask why not, why shouldn't we try, why can't we try ... they make new things happen.

So, for me, it's a balance. Fight the destructive, hurtful behaviors, teach them to cope as best they can, and then advocate with the teacher to make accommodations that allows everyone to get through the day.

so far, I have not discovered the currency in all these years. Even taking away the iPad only works for a few days...NOTHING seems to really stick, at this point, I can only figure that she must LIKE for me to be an angry screaming mean mom. She must LIKE that attention...

I feel like I'm on a crazy seesaw, trying to balance "is she bored?" with "why is she such a pain in the butt?". I just don't understand why she can't accept that everything would be so much better if she would just "go with the flow".

What is wrong with my child????

I'm pretty sure she understands the expectations...I'm not sure what you mean about strategies? For dealing with the boredom? So far, what I'm hearing in all situations is that people expect her to just sit there. Which isn't really helpful. If you tell her to "entertain herself in her head" she gets in trouble because she's gone too far in there, kwim? No teacher has wanted to LET her have any sort of "fidget" or anything. I can't seem to get any kind of accomodations...

There also seems to be no consequences in the classroom. Even at the last school, when they feel they can't deal with a kid, they would just send them to the counseling office, then call parents...I don't even know that they are really allowed to do anything.

I'm sorry, because I know I sound like one of those "wah wha wah" people today but this is just...I mean, I just DO NOT understand and I feel like we have tried so many things and NOTHING is working.

Something that used to (OK, still does) help me in boring being-taught situations is to put myself in the shoes of the teacher. What is she trying to convey? How else might she have decided to do it? Why has she decided to do it this way? How would I do it instead? What would the advantages and disadvantages of my way be? Quite challenging to do that in real time while still keeping up with what *is* being said, and you have to pay attention to do it, even if it isn't quite the kind of attention that's expected :-)

I also think, she's 8, she doesn't have a disability that makes her less able to do this than other children; she's perfectly capable of sitting and (genuinely, not faking!) paying attention to things that aren't all that interesting for a few hours. Tell her she has to do this, and if she doesn't do it show your displeasure as you would for any other misbehaviour. The issue here seems to me to be that you don't wholeheartedly think it's misbehaviour. You have to make up your mind; if you really think it isn't, you either let the school deal with it however they like or take her out; if you think it is, show her you mean it.

ColinsMum...I do think the situation is not ideal, in that she should be doing much more challenging work. I still don't think I would characterize the behaviors themselves as defiant...

But I DO feel like she could at least fake it and I cannot possibly fathom why she won't do that. And I don't know how much more strongly I could make my displeasure known without harming the child. I actually think the school SHOULD deal with it, but, like I said, there seems to be no real lasting consequences in the classroom. And we don't have to deal with these things in the home setting because she is quite compliant with me...

She's NOT at all interested in what is going on in the classroom, what the teacher is saying, etc.

I made a comment once that it was like she had already done a cost/benefit analysis of her whole life and has decided that its ok with her to suffer the consequences of losing privileges, games, toys, etc. SHe will be compliant long enough to earn them back, then it starts all over again.

I'm so sad now...I really don't like her right now. How can an 8yo make me so miserable?