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    #121774 - 02/02/12 05:57 PM SAT-IQ Correlations
    Joel Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/02/12
    Posts: 3
    This has been a topic debated everywhere.

    You've got kids who score in the 1500+ and have high IQ that correlates very strongly. But I've also seen students score "mediocre" or perhaps "poorly" relative to their high IQs. Many times these same students with the high IQs but pedestrian SATs seem to have processing speed deficits. Many of them appear to struggle with the snap-judgment of timed tests, and over analyze questions that are meant to be straight forward.

    It's a shame the SATS have such weight in college admissions. I've seen very bright students flounder due to lower scores. They aspired to attend selective universities where they could fit in with other highly capable peers but instead internalized the inability to score highly on the standardized tests, rationalized their high IQ scores as 'flukes' and suffered great problems with self-esteem.

    One size doesn't fit all of course. Such is the curse and joy of life.

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    #121895 - 02/03/12 05:23 PM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Joel]
    aculady Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/31/10
    Posts: 1040
    I think that if more schools and more psychologists were cognizant of the fact that giftedness does not preclude having specific learning disabilities or processing deficits, these students would be able to get reasonable accommodations on the SAT (and in college) and achieve at a level more in line with their intellectual ability.

    ETA: They would also be better able to understand why some things were so much harder for them than for others and not doubt their own intelligence so much.


    Edited by aculady (02/03/12 05:24 PM)

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    #121896 - 02/03/12 05:34 PM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Joel]
    Cricket2 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/11/09
    Posts: 2172
    Loc: Colorado
    Especially with the advent of study programs for tests like the SAT, I'm not even sure that we can conclude that high scores on these types of tests indicate high IQ.
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    #121898 - 02/03/12 05:36 PM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Cricket2]
    aculady Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/31/10
    Posts: 1040
    Mensa agrees with you, but for reasons regarding the new test structure, not just the availability of study programs.

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    #121899 - 02/03/12 05:41 PM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Joel]
    JonA Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/23/09
    Posts: 17
    Actually, for a variety of mostly politically correct reasons, the SAT questions were changed so that they correlate much less to IQ today than they used to. Getting a 1600 (Verbal + Math only) used to be a really big deal and a virtual lock into any selective school including the Ivies and Stanford. Now there are thousands of students performing at this level (as opposed to a handful per test). One of the most famous changes made toward this end was the elimination of analogies (even after class biased words like "regatta" were eliminated) in the verbal section. Analogies simply tracked too closely to intelligence rather than achievement, so they were done away with.

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    #121903 - 02/03/12 06:09 PM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Joel]
    Cricket2 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/11/09
    Posts: 2172
    Loc: Colorado
    I recall hearing that as well in a psych testing & assessment class I took a few years back. The GRE is the same deal. When I took it, there was an analytical section which correlated better with IQ. I guess that I should feel good that that was my highest scoring section -- lol! The newer GRE no longer has that section.
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    #121914 - 02/03/12 11:18 PM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Joel]
    thx1138 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/30/12
    Posts: 93
    Current SAT max is 2400 not 1600. There are 3 parts now. Readin', writin', and 'rithmatic. Not sure when they made the changeover, been several years.

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    #121919 - 02/04/12 05:21 AM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Joel]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2593
    Loc: MA
    Research by Detterman et al. http://psychology.case.edu/faculty/detterman_doug.html has found large correlations between IQ and scores on the SAT and ACT . Some of the papers can be found online. The new SAT does have a lower ceiling than the older one (used in Detterman's study).

    There are SAT-to-IQ conversion tables online for students in 11th-12th grade. I would like to see such a table for younger students. A math SAT score of 700 at 12 vs. 17 translates into different IQs.

    I don't agree with the argument that the SAT must have a low correlation with IQ because people study for it. My 8yo boy is studying for the SAT, especially the math section, using books by Kaplan and the College Board. Before preparing he scored in the low 600s on an old SAT at home. Once he is exposed to all the SAT math he should score a bit higher. SAT preparation is over the head of most 8-year-olds and would raise their scores very little. A test can be g-loaded yet also be studied for. IQ will set a limit on how much score improvement studying can yield.

    Talent searches and the Davidson Young Scholars program use the SAT and ACT to identify gifted students, so they must still think these tests are valid for that purpose.

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    #121921 - 02/04/12 05:54 AM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Bostonian]
    Cricket2 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/11/09
    Posts: 2172
    Loc: Colorado
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Talent searches and the Davidson Young Scholars program use the SAT and ACT to identify gifted students, so they must still think these tests are valid for that purpose.


    Yes, but not in isolation and not at the age at which these tests are meant to be taken. DYS, for instance, wouldn't take a perfect SAT score from a high school junior for admission and, even from middle schoolers, requires the IQ piece as well.

    I'd agree that most 8 y/os couldn't study their way into particularly high SAT or ACT scores b/c it would be over their heads. However, I do think that average to bright average high schoolers could study their way into significantly higher SAT/ACT scores than their intelligence would predict especially b/c, as I understand it, a lot of the studying isn't about the material itself but test taking strategies for how to get the most points out of the tests (when to guess, etc.).

    I think that this is where the IQ correlations fall apart. The old charts show IQ correlations for SAT scores for high schoolers who are taking the test at the planned age/grade.
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    #121923 - 02/04/12 06:18 AM Re: SAT-IQ Correlations [Re: Joel]
    Iucounu Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/02/10
    Posts: 1457
    Since Davidson only accepts the SAT as a college placement test in place of an achievement test, I wouldn't say that their doing so really weighs in favor of a high IQ correlation. The correlation is whatever it is; we don't know it; and it's likely lowered in the newest version.
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