Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 591 guests, and 14 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    streble, DeliciousPizza, prominentdigitiz, parentologyco, Smartlady60
    11,413 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 2 1 2
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 63
    M
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 63
    Yikes. DD9 (HG), has always been tiny. 10th %ile and below on weight and height her whole life. She's also a perfectionist and likes to have control. She's always been a picky eater, and funny about textures of foods.


    DH and I are both trying to shed some pounds, for health reasons mainly (his high cholesterol, my high blood pressure). Anytime I'm referring to our diet, weight loss, exercising, etc., I try to be careful to reinforce that "Daddy and I are trying to be more healthy." I try really hard not to give my girls the message that they need to be skinny.

    Lately DD9 has made a few comments that have me concerned. She's talked about her meat having "fat" on it, and referred to foods as too fattening, or not wanting to be fat... How do little girls get these messages so early?

    Because of her perfectionism and control issues, I am a little bit concerned. She still eats, but at times we have to make her eat dinner, etc. This is not really new, since she has never been much of an eater. Nonetheless, her comments have me a little worried. Any suggestions?

    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 1,457
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 1,457
    That's a tough situation. You want to encourage healthy eating and behavior, but one of the things to avoid with a perfectionistic child is modeling perfectionism. I think you're taking a good tack by stressing that you want to be healthy. Perhaps you could model setting realistic goals, a realization that perfection may be unattainable, etc.: communicate that everyone's bodies are different, that you just want to reach a certain weight goal without making it your full-time hobby, that doing a few things can help you be a lot healthier, etc. Also, in this particular case I'd stress that being too thin can be AND LOOK very unhealthy, and that the trick is a good balance rather than restriction.

    We have this problem too, but with our son. I think that he's got a good dose of parent fatness shame mixed in with his perfectionism. I threatened to force-feed him a suet cake one day if he didn't can it with the talk about his needing to avoid getting fat (he's also a bit underweight for his age). That behavior's luckily been on the wane lately (two cakes later... j/k), and he's also been eating more meat.

    Here's a past thread on perfectionism. A lot of the techniques for academically-related perfectionism are tough to relate to your situation, unfortunately.


    Striving to increase my rate of flow, and fight forum gloopiness. sick
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 868
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 868
    When my daughter was around the same age, she started expressing the same worries. My husband started taking her rock climbing, and being a part of that world changed her body image and helped her work through a lot of the control issues. It didn't change her perfectionism, but she was able to channel it into a sport where it meant she trained to compete on a national level until she started college. Climbing changed how she viewed her body; it became a tool she needed to take care of, so her eating was about health, not being a tiny waif. And she was proud of her muscles. And the kids on her team ate like horses because of the crazy amounts of calories they burned, so she learned to look at food as fuel so that she could climb longer and better. She avoided sugar, refused to drink carbonated beverages, but loaded up on healthy carbs and proteins - thanks to a coach to taught them about nutrition. And climbing let her be in control of her own success while it also forced her to allow some control to be in the hands of whomever was at the other end of the rope, so it really helped her with her control issues.

    From my own experience, I would highly recommend a sport that doesn't focus on body image and that isn't totally a "team" sport like soccer or basketball. Swimming, running, etc. all allow for individual control over one's performance within the context of considering and working with teammates.

    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 741
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 741
    My 8yo is not tiny, in that she's 70th+ for height and ~30th for weight, but the two combined currently put her about 2nd percentile for BMI. Also a picky eater, in that she has a relatively limited range of foods she'll eat, but the individual items aren't typical picky-eater foods. Also a perfectionist who likes control. Also has heavy parents who talk about healthy eating and making our bodies healthy and strong, rather than dieting.

    And I hear her say things like, "I'm getting so fat!" or "I don't want ice cream because it has too many calories." (Not that those comments generally keep her from having ice cream, thankfully.) I don't know where she gets it from, either.

    Last night, she was bemoaning the fact that her teeth aren't white like you see on TV / in magazines. So I pulled out YouTube. We looked at the Fotoshop by Adobe spoof, Dove Evolution, a montage of "average person with normal makeup on left / same person with professional makeup / hair on the right," a homemade Photoshop demos where the starting picture and the ending picture weren't recognizable as the same person at all, a professional Photoshop demo where a really attractive model had pretty much everything changed - including hair and eye color, and a set of candid no-makeup celeb photos paired with the same celeb all glammed up (which DD pointed out appeared to have been Photoshopped, too).

    My DD said she felt a lot better about how she looked at the end. Just watching how they faked everything up made a huge difference.

    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 1,457
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 1,457
    Great stuff, ABQMom and AlexsMom.


    Striving to increase my rate of flow, and fight forum gloopiness. sick
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 4
    B
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    B
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 4
    I have been reading this forum for years and this post made me come out of hiding. I have a DD who developed this problem at age 9 while trying to perfectly model a "healthy" lifestyle. She became dangerously underweight and it changed her personality and behavior. If you are seeing any of those red flags, please see a pediatrician right away. Early intervention is key.

    Also, it is time to start sharing conversations about body changes that are normal and something that every girl goes through. Puberty takes alot of growth and calories, especially for those brainy, active high-achievers. Another thing to watch is the messages received at school and through the media about what is appropriate to eat. What is right for an average-sized/averagely active child is not okay for a thin and/or athletic child. Chocolate milk and ice cream are needed in my home. Kids this age still need around 30% of their calories from fats.

    I'm ecstatic to share that my daughter fought and won this battle, grew 8 inches already and is thriving at her middle school. I am not trying to scare anyone, but just wanted to share that sometimes serious problems can develop.

    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    Comment from a former HG+ anorexic perfectionist (not the only one on the board by a long shot, I'll be bound...): it may not be a popular view but I suspect there is no way you can talk about weight loss, food restriction, etc. without it being a danger to your intelligent perfectionist children. However you surround it with talk about wanting to be healthy, what you're drawing attention to is the fact that, because in earlier times you ate more than your bodies needed, now you need to eat less than you would like to, in order to get back to a good state. For an intelligent perfectionist child to decide to be very careful never to become overweight in the first place, and to do that by exercising careful control over what she eats, is unsurprising; and that level of concern about and control over food intake is in itself dangerous. (You can say "you just listen to your body, you're fine" but if you're simultaneously noticeably doing something different, this is a bit "don't think about a pink elephant".)

    [And be careful about complacency: I remember, as a young child surrounded by dieting, eating what I was given and saying the right things, but deciding that, once I had enough autonomy over my eating, I would put clear blue water between me and being fat. In my teens I got the autonomy and did just that. When I was 5, my parents probably thought there was no problem, but there was. Being very good at delayed gratification has its drawbacks.]

    My advice would be: imagine you're at a healthy weight and in a healthy lifestyle, and talk as you would talk if that were so. Don't mention weight. If you're eating less than you would then, fine, but do so without comment. Don't mention calories. And of course, exercise and encourage exercise, but don't connect this with weight.


    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 63
    M
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 63
    Thanks for the great ideas...

    I think we're really going to keep trying to push the "food is fuel to help you do ___" concept. It makes me sad to think that society pushes this on little girls so early frown

    DD's intensity/perfectionism makes her that much more vulnerable.

    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 63
    M
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 63
    I hadn't thought about it that way, Colinsmum...
    We don't really talk about weight loss with the kids, but they really can't help but be aware of the changes we've made. I've tried really hard to emphasize that we're trying to "help Daddy's blood get better, etc." I suppose she could be connecting the dots with the health problems and resolving herself never to be in our situation. *sigh* Maybe in trying to send the right message, we've scared her??

    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 982
    L
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    L
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 982
    At 9 or 10, before puberty, my daughter started worrying about weight. She had gained a few pounds but was not fat and I knew they would turn into curves in a year or two. When she became a cheerleader a few years later it got worse and I noticed that her friends were the same way.

    I never worried about my weight until recently because I was always at a healthy weight according to weight charts, even now. I used to be at the low end of the range for weight and now I am at the middle. I started having trouble with my blood pressure and cholesterol and the doctor said it wouldn't hurt to try losing a few pounds to see if it made any difference. My husband is also trying to lose a few pounds but does not look overweight, so we talk about losing weight in front of our son, but typical boy he is hungry all the time. It does not stop him from eating.

    My daughter is an adult now and still very concerned about her appearance, but I think it is not such a bad thing except she tells my son how important appearance is. She even said if the dentist doesn't recommend braces for his teeth he should get them anyway so his teeth will be perfect because girls like guys with nice teeth. She also gives him skin care products to use and teaches him how to use them and tells him he needs to shave his mustache and work out because girls like muscles too. Wearing the right clothes is important too and she helps him with that. She tells him his appearance will be very important later in life. The apartment complex where she lives is filled with only pretty, successful people. I am guessing they are probably perfectionistic about the way their bodies look. They sit out by the pool and show off their beautiful bodies. It is no wonder my son is willing to wear his brace even though it hurts and causes him to not be able to do much of anything.

    Joined: Jun 2008
    Posts: 1,840
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jun 2008
    Posts: 1,840
    Originally Posted by AlexsMom
    So I pulled out YouTube. We looked at the Fotoshop by Adobe spoof, Dove Evolution, a montage of "average person with normal makeup on left / same person with professional makeup / hair on the right,"

    My DD said she felt a lot better about how she looked at the end. Just watching how they faked everything up made a huge difference.

    DW and I talked about this a few years ago.

    She saw a site like the one below and her first reaction was, "I'M A 10!I'M a 10!"

    I did the same thing for a niece, and she had the same reaction.

    http://freshpics.blogspot.com/2010/08/50-outstanding-celebrity-photo.html

    The flip side is when you also show them the men before they are retouched. LOL


    Originally Posted by Lori H.
    My daughter is an adult now and still very concerned about her appearance, but I think it is not such a bad thing except she tells my son how important appearance is. ... She tells him his appearance will be very important later in life. The apartment complex where she lives is filled with only pretty, successful people.

    DW and I lived at a place like the above for a few years. Everyone looked good, but few were functionally fit. An Army friend who is still active duty visited me - and he had a bit of a gut and scars from war. But was also functionally very fit. And highly intelligent with interesting stories and perspectives. He was not a pretty boy. But he got a lot of attention because he was real, not fake.

    A lot of people only have their looks and the time they spend getting those looks. They develop nothing else - neither from a true fitness standpoint nor experiences nor knowledge. They are pretty boring to talk to and be with when compared to their peers who are real.

    Last edited by Austin; 01/19/12 11:53 AM.
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 4
    B
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    B
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 4
    Hi,
    I'm a new member, but someone who has been reading this forum for quite a few years. This topic brought me out from hiding and I wrote an earlier response, but didn't see it posted.

    I just want to say that this issue became a very real and serious problem for my DD at age 9. It had to be taken care of by professional help. If you notice any big change in your child's behavior, emotions, or personality OR if you see your child refusing food they once loved, take that as a sign for need of intervention.

    I'm happy to say we reversed the problem in our home. As others have said, stick to team sports, avoid any conversations about weight loss or calorie counting and encourage eating by not labeling things as healthy (the reverse for a perfectionist is "unhealthy"). Also, I encourage you to talk about body changes that happen over the next few years that will need lots of food and growth.

    Enjoying life with a truly healthy, growing girl...



    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    DDalmost7 has the opposite problem. As a newborn she was a Michelin Baby, and she has sort of "stretched" each time she grew, where she becomes a bit taller and leaner, but she still has something of a belly. She's also got a LOT of muscle for her age/gender, so BMI is misleading in her case. That's why, when a particular doctor used the word "obese," my wife wanted to hit him. We're always walking the tightrope with DD, trying to help her achieve a healthy weight and body image, because as a gifted perfectionist she's a high risk for an eating disorder. Like most kids her age she's prone to eating too much junk food if we allow it, but otherwise she's doing very well... she's active, she stops eating when she's full, and she eats a MUCH healthier variety of foods than many of her peers do. Most importantly, she views her body favorably. For now.

    Obviously media images are a HUGE part of the problem with kids and body image, but I think a bigger problem is the poor quality of dieting information being foisted upon these kids. The health industry and the media have grossly dumbed-down the information on what it takes to maintain a healthy weight. They went for the low-lying fruit by picking on fat. Yes, the typical diet of an obese adult contains more fat than necessary, and since it's the most concentrated form of calories, reducing fat intake will reduce caloric intake, which promotes healthier weight.

    But as usual, the truth is more nuanced than that. Fat is a vital nutrient, though when the media talks about it in terms of nutritional value it uses the term "fatty acids," confusing the fact that they're basically one and the same. Also, a number of our other vital nutrients are fat soluble, and the only way our bodies can break them down and absorb them is if they were consumed with some dietary fat. As a result, someone who thinks they're doing their body a favor by drinking fat-free milk is literally flushing away most of the nutrients they thought they were ingesting... including vitamin D and calcium.

    So there's an opportunity for another talking point, which gives us:

    - Media images of beauty are distorted (mentioned by others earlier)
    - BMI is a distorted statistic
    - Information about healthy diet is distorted

    Between these three things, there's no wonder so many people have a distorted view of their own bodies.

    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 4
    B
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    B
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 4
    Dude, thank you for making all of those excellent points about "fat". I can't tell you the anger I felt when I saw a picture on the cover of my then ill 4th grade DD's periodical from school illustrating a healthy school lunch- fat-free milk, steamed vegetables and a baked chicken breast. There was almost no fat in that meal, not to mention complex carbs. Children are receiving many messages about food that can be frightening to a perfectionist who is always trying to be their best.

    In our home we don't say "healthy food" or "junk food", but stress food variety and foods you should try to include daily.

    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    Welcome, BeKind. I'm very happy that you managed to get help for your DD and that she's well now.


    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Originally Posted by BeKind
    Dude, thank you for making all of those excellent points about "fat". I can't tell you the anger I felt when I saw a picture on the cover of my then ill 4th grade DD's periodical from school illustrating a healthy school lunch- fat-free milk, steamed vegetables and a baked chicken breast. There was almost no fat in that meal, not to mention complex carbs. Children are receiving many messages about food that can be frightening to a perfectionist who is always trying to be their best.

    Yeah, I find that particularly outrageous. Children on the Atkins diet?

    Originally Posted by BeKind
    In our home we don't say "healthy food" or "junk food", but stress food variety and foods you should try to include daily.

    We find it particularly useful to delineate between foods with poor nutritional value and those with high nutritional value. We do allow DD to have some junk food each day, but she knows this is limited, whereas her access to foods we define as healthy is not limited. So if she's asking for a snack after dinner, and she'd been to a birthday party earlier that day, when we tell her she's had enough junk food she knows that we're not going to make s'mores, but she can have all the yogurt with blueberries she wants.

    Plus, when she was four, she drew a picture of an ice cream cone, a cupcake, and a candy bar, taped it to a yardstick like it was a flagpole, and marched through the living room chanting, "I love junk food, junk food is good for you..." So there's that.

    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 4
    B
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    B
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 4
    Thank you for the welcome and I am very grateful!

    And, Dude, the picture of your daughter marching makes me laugh. Thank goodness for the variety in our children's personalities, even among those in my own home.

    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 741
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 741
    Originally Posted by Dude
    Originally Posted by BeKind
    a healthy school lunch- fat-free milk, steamed vegetables and a baked chicken breast. There was almost no fat in that meal, not to mention complex carbs. Children are receiving many messages about food that can be frightening to a perfectionist who is always trying to be their best.

    Yeah, I find that particularly outrageous. Children on the Atkins diet?

    That's not Atkins (which is low-carb, so allows for quite a bit of fat). That's the Rabbit Starvation diet.

    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 6
    T
    Junior Member
    Offline
    Junior Member
    T
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 6
    It's so nice to hear people realizing the importance of fat. We don't use "fat" as a way to describe something. We've taught our kids that everyone has fat under their skin and it is an essential part of everyone's body. We say that some people might have more fat under their skin than is healthy (like mommy:)), and some people have too little and some are just right. As for "junk" food, we usually say that food might be good for your body or good for your taste buds. We try to eat more healthy food for our bodies, but in moderation we like to have happy tongues too. smile

    Page 1 of 2 1 2

    Moderated by  M-Moderator, Mark D. 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    California Tries to Close the Gap in Math
    by thx1138 - 03/22/24 03:43 AM
    Gifted kids in Illinois. Recommendations?
    by indigo - 03/20/24 05:41 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5