Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy English Acceleration - Gave It a Try

D (age 16) and I met with her school principal today to advocate for allowing her to take a Gifted Learning Works AP English course instead of the normal 11th grade English class for second semester. They only offer one level of English class (no honors, no AP) for her whole grade. This wasn't a problem in 9th and 10th grade due to truly talented teachers who manage to differentiate successfully within their classrom. But this year has been a disaster, and D has been dismal. The worst day was when they read "The Raven" by Poe -- she went off to class very excited to be discussing one of her favorite authors. The teacher put on an episode of "The Simpsons" where they recite some of the Raven, and that was it. No class discussion or analysis.

Can't tell the outcome yet, but I was very proud of D's self advocacy, which has not been a strong suit in the past. The principal commented that he understood her need to feed her intellect (which was a good sign -- he is also very bright, so I do think he really "got" that component). Still not sure he will allow it, as they have a policy for not accepting outside credit. And he is going to talk to the English teacher -- although D and I did meet with her before with exactly the same list of complaints (on paper, written by D) that she showed him today. I told him I though this year's English teacher was not exactly a disinterested party in helping make this decision for D (implying that her poor teaching is one reason we are seeking a change), and asked him to also talk to her English teacher from last year for a more balanced view.

Sigh... we will see.

Good for your DD. How disheartening for her to have hopes of discussion of her favorite author dashed.

I hope the principal heard you when you asked him to seek out a disinterested party to aid in the decision-making process.

Wow... got our response today. D's requests were completely smacked down. No AP class allowed since it is "outside credit" (never mind that it is clearly a higher quality curriculum than they are offering). Not even the option of moving to 12th grade English, another option D put on the table.

The principal talked about her "disdain" for the curriculum and her classmates in his response. She was working hard not to sound that way in her presentation to the teacher and principal, but the teacher has picked up the vibe in the classroom that D is frustrated with the low quality of discussion (and honestly, the teacher's inability to keep a discussion moving forward productively). The principal said that she is "not listening" to her classmates -- I think she has been listening very well, and is tired of superficial, repetitive comments that the teacher allows to dominate the discussion. Sigh...

So his suggestion is that she meet with the teacher before the next quarter starts (on a block quarter schedule, so she does not have English right now) and they can talk about how D can do extra work in the class. Given the huge volume of busywork in the class, this is not something D wants to do. Plus, this teacher's regular assignments are just a bit off... they just don't make a lot of sense sometimes. D is not interested in more assignments from this teacher.

In the past I have defended the school as a pretty good option for gifted kids. They have the bullying issue well under control, and class sizes are small. They do send some kids to very good colleges. But after this and a couple of other experiences over the last two of years, I can't really support them in that way any more. D is a junior (and tuition is paid for this year), so there probably is no changing schools at this point. Sooo frustrating.

I have asked for a meeting (without D) with the principal, and may ask our Davidson contact for DYS to call him. (He had never heard of Davidson, I mentioned them when I told them that they helped us pick out this AP option for D.). I am pretty sure that the best we can hope for now is to get D transferred to the other teacher who is teaching 11th grade English this year (new teacher to the school, teaching the same curriculum as it is her first year). But my kid says she has heard that the other teacher has better classroom control.

Arrggghhh.....

Just curious, why on earth aren't they offering AP English to juniors? There are 2 English AP exams, and the kids typically either have to get a 5 on one, or a 4 on both to get the full college credit. Unless something has changed since I took the tests (granted, it's been about 14yrs!)

I am sorry the teacher/school isn't being helpful. Your DD is learning a sad lesson - most people she comes across are not going to be as intelligent or insightful as she is. Dealing with those folks is something you just have to learn how to do... They are often your superiors in life.

Smallish school (only about 60 kids per graduating class). They offer a few APs (for seniors only). And they are kind of snobby about what they consider to be the high quality of their English program. They prefer to think that the kids get more out of going in-depth vs. the fast pace AP classes require. The 9th and 10th grade English teachers are exceptional, and manage to pull off in-depth AND pretty fast paced. This 11th grade teacher is just not of the same caliber. The school does offer honors classes in math & sciences. But not English or Social Studies.

Honestly, this is sort of the story of D's life (and many gifted kids), that she is ready to go at a faster pace and is frustrated when the group around her and the teacher are moving more slowly. It happens almost every year in almost every class, so it is not a new experience for her. But this year she sort of snapped. She LOVES English, and was so miserable that she decided to speak up. I didn't discourage her; there are situations in life when you have to put up with this, but I don't see why this should be one of them. Now she is still frustrated, and angry, and embarrassed to have drawn the attention to herself on top of that.

It is a K-12 school, and she has been there since K. I am sorry now that we did not consider moving her to one of the larger private schools in town with more extensive course offerings when she hit high school (or even at the beginning of this year).

The abilities of schools to destroy enthusiasm for learning never ceases to amaze me. The Simpsons? Seriously?

I'm also feeling somewhat bummed out right now for similar reasons. My son is in a glacially-paced geometry class and the school allowed him to study independently about two months into the year. I waited three weeks to get an answer from his teacher (including one blown-off appointment on her part) about what she expected from him. She finally told me that he'd have to take all the tests and quizzes with the other kids and that his grade would be based "solely on tests and quizzes." Fine. Works for us. My son is finally enthusiastic about math again and got a 99% on the final.

But she changed her mind about how she was going to grade him and added in his marks for homework and participation early in the grading period. He apparently hadn't participated enough and had a D when he changed to independent study. She froze his mark there, told me only tests and quizzes would count, and doesn't seem to want to offer a way for him to improve it. Grr. I asked her if she could reconsider and haven't heard a word. No surprises there. So tomorrow I'll have to try to deal with this in person with her and/or the principal.

This would not be a big deal but for the fact that it's going to keep him from getting an A (he's one point away now) and may also keep him off the high honor roll. He really wanted this and it's going to really hurt him.

This is the same teacher who once announced that there's no such thing as a "mathy mind."

I am just so tired of dealing with teachers who are clueless about smart kids, spout misinformation, are not educated in the subjects they teach, and are smug in their ignorance. Too many teachers and administrators are this way --- yet they expect everyone to treat them like "professionals" in spite of the fact that so many of them clearly are not. News flash: being a professional means doing your job well, sticking to your promises, not blowing people off, and doing your best to ensure that you aren't repeating misinformation, among other things. It is not an honor forever bestowed because you have an M.Ed.

People may find this remark offensive, but the fact is that it's true, and is moreover an elephant in the room of education. No one is allowed to say this stuff out loud without getting blasted for "bashing teachers." Yet they and their principals are allowed to bash us and our kids every day when they parrot edu-dogma like "there's no such thing as a mathy mind," "there's no such thing as talent," or "they all even out by third grade."


Arrrgggghhhh indeed.

If I were in that meeting, I'd have said the meeting jumped the shark the moment they spouted that last sentence, because they clearly don't understand the nature of AP English, or they'd have never said it.

I had AP English all four years of high school, and fast-paced it was not. The only part that seemed fast was when you had to keep up with nightly reading assignments, but then again, all you had to do was come into class the next day, keep your mouth shut for the first ten minutes of classroom discussion, and you'd be up to speed and participating in said discussion. Who needs Cliff's Notes when you're talking about the reading each morning in-depth? And that's assuming that the given literature was unappealing, because otherwise, a real gifted student would be reading ahead for enjoyment.

And it sounds like they got it wrong for your DD's issue, because she showed up ready to talk about Poe in-depth, but the teacher rushed right on past him and on to other topics. What she wants is in-depth, and one place she can get that is AP.

Wow, that is just awful! The Simpsons? Really, why wouldn't she show a little disdain for that?! The principal should be livid that that was the extent of the EAP lesson!

I am so sorry for your dd. I hope you can convince them to let her change classes at least. And as far as in-depth vs fast paced, I agree with Dude, it sounds to me like your daughter is actually craving the in-depth but not getting even standard depth.

My dd13, who also loves English, is similarly frustrated this year and, I'm sure, coming off as distainful as well. She's actually in a pre-AP English class but having group tests and projects with kids whose work ethic or depth is poor is extremely frustrating to her. She's basically doing most of the group projects herself at this point and studying all of the material for group tests even though she's only responsible for her section of it b/c she has had some bad outcomes when she's relied on the other kids to do their part.

It does seem that teachers are loathe to admit or recognize that there are different needs within their classes and, when kids complain about the level of discussion or the work of their peers, they are assumed to be wrong and arrogant. I've gotten the distinct impression that some of my dd's teachers view it as their job to teach dd that all of the other kids are equally capable whether that is accurate or not.

I really wouldn't have said before that dd was arrogant. She's centered (knows who she is) but doesn't condescend or look down on others. I actually feel like some of the way her schooling is going this year has contributed to making her appear arrogant b/c they are forcing her into situations where she is resentful and banging her head against a wall.

I'm sorry that your dd and so many of our other kids here seem to be in the same spot.

I'm sorry to hear that the school isn't supportive or your DD's desire to learn. In high school, I was always in "honors language arts" since we did not have AP English. Somehow there were always 5-6 sections of honors each year (30-35 students in each, out of about 750 in my grade) so 'challenging' books and plays often met fierce resistance from my classmates.

I think I singlehandedly supported the Barnes & Noble Classics collection during those years as I read whenever I had a spare minute before, after, or during class. Even if your DD has to find reading material at her level on her own, the vocabulary and style she finds in those books will help her become a better writer and a faster reader than the rest of her class (and being able to read the questions, stories, and textbooks she encounters very quickly will definitely help on SAT/ACT and in college classes). The situation is obviously not ideal, but as long as she finds reading on her own enjoyable, it can help her get through this year.