Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment correlation between WISC III and WPPSI

hello all, TIA for any advice. I'm the normal freaking out mom

at 4years 10 months my son was given the WPPSI with result 1Q 134. The school is reassessing him now with the WISC IV and Woodcock Johnson because they are seeing a gap between his academic performance and his IQ, and they think the original result was inflated (highest subscore 137 performance lowest score 129 verbal processing 119).

He has never tested lower than 99th percentile on any standardized test (1st grade his fall 2010 MAP scores were Math 194 Reading 196).

He has an IEP due to adhd/anxiety disorder, which seems to me to explain his performance in school (not awful, still ahead of grade level just not top top top)

I'm wondering if I should even care if they are retesting him since it is MAP scores that are used for gifted and his would qualify him, presuming he does as well next time.

Hopefully folks more familiar with testing will chime in, but I have a couple questions/comments. First of all, what prompted the school to want to do more testing? It is rare for teachers to pay any bit of attention to IQ, even in my son's GT school! Once they're in the program, it doesn't come up again usually. Do you think the testing is more because of the 2e factors? Maybe the school could gain some useful information that could help with accommodations?

I guess if I were you, I would ask the school what they hope to get out of the testing. Also, does your kiddo mind the testing? If it will make him anxious, the school should have a very good reason for doing this. I would also ask the school to give you assurances that your kiddo will not be pulled from any GT programs based on the new scores, esp. since your DS qualifies based on his MAPs, and esp. if your DS is benefitting from whatever GT programs they offer.

As for IQ scores being inflated, it is possible to score fairly high on IQ tests at the younger ages, I think because if you have some early skills that not many other kids at that young age have yet, you will likely do better. Don't quote me on any of this! Consistent achievement test scores over time will tell you more than an isolated IQ test, I believe.

thanks for responding.

The limited GT services (which don't start until next year) are based on MAP so not a worry.

We are trying to untangle accommodations needed, which I argue included accelerated work in his classroom, to address ADHD behaviors that emerge when he is bored. So yes because he is 2E.

The school basically thinks that the gap in his in classroom achievement and his stated IQ means that the IQ must have been inflated based on this idea that WPPSI may inflate based on home env, although there haven't been any actual studies that document this (as has occurred for the Flynn effect). I wish I'd thought to bring up the MAP test as that clearly can't be inflated.

However, I really didn't argue with them about it because I actually want the retesting esp. the Woodcock Johnson. His subscores on the WPPSI included Block design 17 Matrix reasoning 17 and Vocab 18 while untreated for ADHD (still not on meds using CBT therapies to treat). They gave him the test as fast as they could to accomodate his ADHD but I'm curious to see how he does now that he is older and able to focus better.

I also wondering if I should ask for a GAI as well as FSIQ because he has ADHD? Any thoughts on that?

Again thanks for replying

Are you sure the MAP test alone can requalify him for the gifted program? In our school district, qualifying for gifted programs requires a score based on a matrix of input (ability, achievement and teacher recommendation), and I've known a few kiddos who've not requalified for our local gifted magnet when ability tests were repeated. If the test your ds is being given isn't routinely given to all the kids in his grade at his school, and if you're being told it's because there is a concern that the original IQ measure is thought to be inflated, I'd be suspicious that the reason for retesting is to find a reason to remove him from the program.

FWIW my middle dd tested as MG on the WPSSI at not quite 5 years old. She was retested with the WISC in 2nd grade when she was having challenges at school, and her FSIQ and all subtest scores dropped substantially.

polarbear

ps - something else that's puzzling too me, if your ds has never scored below the 99th percentile on a standardized achievement test, isn't that inline "enough" with his previous IQ scores? I'm guessing something else is going on in the classroom or with his classwork?

polarbear

So, it sounds like his test scores are very high and easily in line with what would be expected given the earlier IQ scores but his performance in class isn't that high. Is that correct?

Like others have said, early IQ scores aren't set in stone. It is certainly possible for scores to go up or down significantly over time in children. However, I don't know that there is much you can do about that and worrying about it is only likely to increase anxiety which isn't going to help his performance.

How long will it take for you to get the results? I'd definitely ask what they intend to do with the results if they don't line up with his earlier IQ scores and MAPS scores. Do you think that the current placement is the right fit for him? Sometimes the right fit isn't determined totally by IQ and sometimes we may never know the child's exact ability.

I have one child who is probably HG but who isn't dramatically accelerated in terms of her placement b/c it just isn't the right thing for her for a variety of reasons. She's also one for whom we'll probably never know her "true" IQ despite two tests. She's PG, or MG, or somewhere between the two! She's also 2e and wildly erratic with average subtests and HG+ subtests every time she's tested.

Some kids who aren't gifted achieve very highly and do quite well in accelerated/GT/AP placements, some do not. The same applies for gifted kids.

The same applies where I live with a caveat. If a child is testing advanced on the NCLB annual tests and that parent pushes for it, s/he is placed in the accelerated/GT classes without the GT identification. If the child hits the 95th percentile on any one part of a group achievement test and doesn't hit that # on an ability test, s/he is generally still ided as gifted if, again, the parent pushes. This is done either through using an alternative measure for the second piece needed (a teacher or parent rating form) or through giving the CogAT and OLSAT in quick succession or repeatedly until the 95th percentile is hit on one subtest. (One of our local districts and some of the schools within that district are more known for doing this than others. Some give the CogAT once and that's it for your one ability test ever.)

Point being, there are some districts that are pretty liberal with GT identifications and some that will place kids who don't have identifications into GT classes anyway due to achievement. Of course, the reverse is also true. We've seen some serious tight gate keeping that makes in darn near impossible to get underachieving HG kids and 2e kids into GT programming.

I appreciate all of your responses. I'm replied earlier but perhaps it is awaiting moderation

GT is negligible at best at our school and my son is not yet in it until next year. That isn't going to help him much though in class on a daily basis which is what prompted the discussion. Class work is too boring for him and thus he lapses in to his hyper-ish behaviors, which worries me a lot. I asked for Accelerated math as well as the AR, which is what he had last year and he was far better "behaved" in class. That is what I'm trying to get for him this year.

His teacher is very much of the has to learn to be more careful etc, which I don't disagree with, but he is reading at AR 4-5.5 (he likes certain series and doesn't really want to go up to more difficult books, plus because of his anxiety he is frightened of a lot of the content in higher level books) but she is upset that he skips words etc. He still gets 90-100% on every AR test and part of me wanted say, so who cares? Again he has ADHD. He does EVERYTHING quickly. In math he makes careless errors so he can't go on to the "next" level, and is stuck at a level far lower than his abilities.