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    #11962 - 03/19/08 04:31 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: ]
    OHGrandma Offline

    Registered: 01/05/08
    Posts: 830
    Here's an example of telling someone the truth, even though it hurts their feelings.

    On 'American Idol' Simon is the most critical of the judges. He's blunt, sometimes maybe over the line; but who's critique do the participants value most? Simon can have even the men in tears, but because he is brutally honest everyone knows that when he gives a compliment that it has great value.
    In real life we aren't as callous as Simon is on TV, but the principle is the same.

    #11964 - 03/19/08 04:42 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: OHGrandma]
    questions Offline

    Registered: 11/24/07
    Posts: 864
    But back to the cancer comment, even though the truth hurts, there are ways to communicate the truth with sensitivity and empathy. As for Simon, in my book telling the truth is not an excuse for being rude. Of course, Simon, the producers, and the rest of them know it does result in better ratings/more $.

    #11968 - 03/19/08 06:17 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: Kriston]
    czechdrum Offline

    Registered: 02/04/08
    Posts: 88
    I haven't read this whole thread yet, but wanted to comment on the theme of the first few posts.

    Re: socialization, I actually feel much more comfortable with the socialization of my child due to the fact that he is homeschooled. He's out in the world every day and deals with people of all ages/shapes/sizes/abilities with ease. Check out this article for many more reasons why homeschoolers prefer their brand of socialization:

    And regarding defensiveness, well, I don't feel defensive at all. I even had the gifted coordinator for our state's department of education tell me that the best educational choice for our son is homeschooling. I know for a fact that his needs cannot be accommodated in schools. It is what it is. Given our situation, I know homeschooling is the best option.

    I do sometimes feel the need to adjust expectations when I meet someone for the first time and they assume that I'm a homeschooler who fits the evangelical Christian mold that characterizes the majority of US homeschoolers. Homeschoolers are rare enough, and those who make that choice for secular reasons are rarer still.


    #11969 - 03/19/08 06:18 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: questions]
    kimck Offline

    Registered: 09/20/07
    Posts: 1134
    LOL - I love the allergies answer to why we're homeschooling! Yes - allergic to not learning at school.

    I was thinking of saying something along the lines of "DS is just not a great fit in a regular classroom", and let them stew on that. I'm sure everyone will think he's ADHD or something, but whatever. It's something I'm more than happy to talk about if people ask for more info, but I'm not sure I want to run around like the lady who liked to brag her homeschooling kindergartner was reading at a first grade level. crazy

    The grade question is a good one too, but if you're homeschooling, you can just say "He's 7, but we're homeschooling, so he's not working at any particular grade level". If people ask for more info, I'll go into it, but otherwise he will be working at different grade levels for everything anyway. My first grader is a legitimate first grader this year, but when people ask what grade he's in now, it doesn't even feel right to say first grade. The better answer would be "He's auditing a first grade class, but we do our real learning after school!".

    #11973 - 03/19/08 06:37 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: Cathy A]
    st pauli girl Offline

    Registered: 01/29/08
    Posts: 1917
    Originally Posted By: Cathy A
    St. Pauli Girl, Is your son really allergic to dairy? I actually know several people who DO hs because of serious allergies. My DD is allergic to peanuts and DS is allergic to eggs. Both are potentially anaphylactic and have epipens and the whole nine yards. In fact, the principal (way back when we enrolled DD in first grade) told us we should homeschool her...

    Yes, he is allergic to dairy, and has the epipen too. But it's not as bad as the peanut allergies where the kids can't be in the same room where there has been PB. I'm sorry (and amazed) your principal suggested homeschooling. I figured all the educators would be familiar (and more helpful) with the food allergies by now.

    #11974 - 03/19/08 06:47 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: czechdrum]
    questions Offline

    Registered: 11/24/07
    Posts: 864

    I love this article! Since DS tended to avoid large groups of kids when he was younger due to sensory issues, we've been hearing the socialization thing for a long time. And now that we're seriously considering HSing, we hear it again. "DS (even more than most kids is what they're suggesting) needs to be in school." Even one of our favorite members of the PS child study team said something like, well, if you want him to grow up and work by himself in an office where he doesn't have to see anyone during the day or interact with anyone...

    In my opinion, a lot of the poor behaviors I've seen in the corporate world appear to be things learned on the playground in elementary school and never corrected.

    #11975 - 03/19/08 06:55 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: kimck]
    Kriston Offline

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    No, Dave, I agree that no one here is arguing in the sense that I was intending it. That also has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making at the time. But I think we've probably beaten that dead horse enough...

    I also never said that homeschoolers have a corner on the market for defensiveness. That was the start of this whole thread: acs's comment. In fact, probably the most defensive person I spoke to regarding HSing was a former public school teacher. She took our decision to homeschool very personally, though to say that it had nothing whatsoever to do with her is not stressing enough how little it had to do with her! I was new to HSing, and I felt defensive of our new, hard-won choice and I felt attacked by her comments. So I argued. With passion. And heart racing.

    Ultimately I still think more HSers are a bit defensive than not. I can't prove that to you. I know of no survey of HSers asking "How defensive are you, on a scale from 1-10?" My claim is based purely on anecdotal evidence of my year with HSers, on posts on HSing forums and on common sense. Would there be a "Bitter Homeschooler's Wishlist" if there were no bitter and defensive homeschoolers? It seems self-evident to me, but maybe not. It seems to me that we're in the minority, and it's hard to be in the minority even when it's the best thing for you.

    If nothing else, the number of times I hear "Oh, I could NEVER HS!" tells me that the mainstream neither understands nor fully accepts HSing. The quiet that came in the conversation after my neighbors heard we were going to HS and the lack of phone calls for playdates from many of them. The different sort of questions you start getting at the doctor's office when you HS. The press coverage of people who commit crimes and happened to have been HSd--the press highlights HSing as if that's the reason kids are abused or people kill people. All these things point to society seeing HSers as odd, strange, different in a bad way.

    I am not a person who bows to peer pressure, but I do like to be accepted. I know from experience that society does not fully understand or accept HSing. They want our kids "socialized," and since they're not, we're viewed as suspect.

    If you don't think that tends to make people defensive, then so be it. You are entitled to your opinion, of course. For my part, I can't see how it could do anything but make most people feel at least a tiny bit defensive.

    However, I do think I am more sensitive to the problems I'm describing than you are, Dave, because you completely buy the whole HSing philosophy. I believe that you really don't care what others think about this matter. You've very comfortable. You think Hsing is the very best thing ever. You are an evangelist because you are a true believer.

    OTOH, I am a reluctant HSer. I expected my kids to go to a traditional school, and I'm still a little disappointed that DS6 is not there. I see the benefits of HSing--and there are lots of them!--but it's not the life I thought we were going to be leading. I'm still adapting.

    I think people who buy the HSing philosophy from the start have less angst about the choice than those of us whose kids start on the societally approved path and then veer off it.

    At least, that's what I've seen. I have no hard evidence for that either.

    #11976 - 03/19/08 06:57 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: st pauli girl]
    kimck Offline

    Registered: 09/20/07
    Posts: 1134
    St. Pauli - that is really tough! And is a very legitimate reason to look at homeschooling too.

    #11990 - 03/19/08 07:55 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: kimck]
    incogneato Offline

    Registered: 10/25/07
    Posts: 2231
    Loc: up in my head.......
    Kriston, your point about being the reluctant HS'er is spot on, I get it. I see the difference between where you and Dave are coming from on this issue.
    And I agree with your having an issue. I believe your child has a right to be educated, just like any child who goes to school. And that won't happen unless they accomodate your child's extreme learning needs. Your child has as much right to special services as any other child who needs them, it's just glossed over in some schools because of the mistaken idea: "Oh, they'll be fine."
    If they are providing special services to any child who has unique learning needs, and you know they are, the they have at least a moral obligation to attempt to do the same for your child.
    I hate to sound so immflammatory, but it could be construed as discriminitory and who wouldn't be incensed about that.


    #12014 - 03/19/08 08:55 AM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: Dottie]
    Lori H. Offline

    Registered: 05/26/07
    Posts: 982
    They don't care about moral obligations. I was told by the superintendent of our public school that being unable to get an appropriate education for my 2E son because he was very advanced in reading and comprehension based on WIAT scores and also advanced in math and everything else except things that required good motor skills that this was a "good problem to have" and that I should keep homeschooling. I couldn't even get his permission to let my son play on the playground during school hours with other kids that he used to go to school with because of liability reasons. When the gifted coordinator's office called him and asked about this he said it was because I might be a child molestor or something even though I volunteered at the school several days a week when my son was in Kindergarten. I would have kept volunteering if they would have just let my son go to school part time to be with other kids but they won't allow it and Oklahoma law doesn't require an appropriate education for twice exceptional children.

    We think this is a form of discrimination. The state gifted coordinator even recommended writing to my legislators and the governor. I did, but they don't answer my letters or emails. We are such a minority that they don't think they have to bother with us. We are just supposed to keep paying our taxes so that all the other kids can learn. When my son was learning about the civil rights movement he said he thought it was nice that at least there were lots of other people in their "minority" so they didn't have to feel so alone when fighting for their rights. Last year, while reading Johnny Tremaine and also reading about the Boston Tea Party he made comments about the "taxation without representation" and he thought in some ways that described our situation. We have to pay taxes but we don't have the right to the services our taxes pay for. He sees problems with our education system and even our form of government that I never questioned when I was a child and he is only nine.

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