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    #11929 - 03/18/08 04:32 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: ]
    Lori H. Offline

    Registered: 05/26/07
    Posts: 982
    My son refused to read the rest of A Wrinkle in Time. He said the town we live in reminded him too much of Camazotz. This is one reason we homeschool.

    #11932 - 03/18/08 05:06 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: Lori H.]
    Wren Offline

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1688
    I applaud everyone who HSs. I couldn't do it. It sounds very hard.

    Dave, you sound exactly like DH, though secretly he really likes socializing, he just doesn't know how. The way you described yourself in HS, he has described himself. Didn't get invited to the football parties, but he was friends with everyone.

    And all animal young like to play with each other, it is innate. And in my opinion, girls are born liking the cute boy and will wear what is fashionable to attract. I think I agree with Kriston's points that lie along that line about social cues.

    Kriston, we agree.

    I joined a mother's "support" group when DD was 4 months. As soon as I sat down on the floor and put her on a blanket, she rolled across the floor to see the other babies. A child with high social needs and it continues.

    Does Davidson have any longitudinal studies on how HSing works and doesn't work for kids down the road, like researched pros and cons?


    #11933 - 03/18/08 05:22 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: Wren]
    acs Offline

    Registered: 03/05/07
    Posts: 797
    Texas Summer,
    The dual-immersion program sounds like a dream come true for me, meeting both educational and community needs, while supporting my larger values. I had hoped such a school would be available to us, but it would be a very hard sell in our district which is not very open-minded (read: hostile to non-English speakers).

    I guess I should be feeling guilty about not running for the school board.....

    Edited by acs (03/18/08 05:23 PM)

    #11934 - 03/18/08 06:10 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: acs]
    incogneato Offline

    Registered: 10/25/07
    Posts: 2231
    Loc: up in my head.......
    I'm reading this thread with great interest. Lots of great thoughts flowing.
    Kriston, I loved that homeschooling wish list, that kind of humor is right up my alley!!
    Dave, nice to i-meet, you have lots of great thoughts to consider. I'm not really agreeing with you that sometimes there are good reasons to hurt people's feelings. Maybe if you gave some more details.....I'd like to think we can communicate in a way that respects people's,, you know.......person.
    I hadn't considered how HS could be thought of or utilized as a racist or classist tool. Disturbing........


    #11935 - 03/18/08 07:25 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: incogneato]


    I have in mind the sort of situation where someone really needs to know some information even though it will hurt them – an obvious case would be a doctor telling a patient she has cancer. Another case would be a teacher giving an honest evaluation to a student that hurts the student’s feelings, even though the student needs to know the information to correct her errors (this may be especially tough on good students – it’s happened, I suppose, to all of us, but it’s the teacher’s job).

    Also, there are people (probably all of us, at least sometimes) who “get their feelings hurt” simply because someone else expresses a different opinion. That can be a way of bullying people to force them to agree with us, and I don’t think anyone is obligated to avoid hurting our feelings in such a situation.

    I think that gratuitously hurting other people’s feelings – just for the fun of it, so to speak -- is pretty much always wrong.


    #11936 - 03/18/08 07:39 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: incogneato]
    Kriston Offline

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest

    Arguing in the sense I'm using the word is not a classic socratic dialogue, or some simple airing of views. I mean a disagreement, a values clash, a verbal fight.

    If it helps, I taught argumentative writing, so I'm completely on-board with the notion of discussing an issue dispassionately in order to come to the best, most reasoned position one can discover. (Ask acs! She'll back me on that, I know! wink )

    But that's not what I meant when I spoke about humans arguing when we feel defensive. I meant arguing! Complete with passion and anger and shaking hands and heart racing. I meant defending our views. I meant talking to be heard, not listening to understand.

    BTW, I stole this point from Lisa Rivero's "Creative Homeschooling" book. She was talking about GT kids arguing when they feel insecure, but it rang true for me. When I know I'm right, I let it go with a shrug. When I fear I'm not or feel I'm being ignored or diminished, I switch to defensiveness and even anger.

    Does that make my point clearer? I fear you've gone off into a semiotic argument when I was talking about *rampant emotionalism*.

    (Is Dottie here?) wink

    #11939 - 03/18/08 08:24 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: AmyEJ]
    Kriston Offline

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Originally Posted By: AmyEJ
    So I just want to offer support to all of you defensive HSers, PSers, ___ers out there: you are doing what's best for your child(ren). And as we all know from reading these fabulous posts each day, every child is different. In my week of lurking I have loved reading about the personalities of your children, finding my DD5 in someone's DD and my DD3 in someone else's DS. I'm so thankful that you are here and are sharing, and am sorry that you ever feel defensive about anything.

    Back atcha', AmyEJ! Thanks for posting. laugh Please comment any time.

    Edited by Kriston (03/18/08 08:29 PM)
    Edit Reason: changed my word choice because what I had sounded a little off my intention.

    #11940 - 03/18/08 08:24 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: Kriston]
    incogneato Offline

    Registered: 10/25/07
    Posts: 2231
    Loc: up in my head.......
    Aha, rampant emotionalism.....I must not be as F as I thought...:)
    I'm following you Dave, I think it's the different lenses through which we are viewing this, I am putting a different value on "hurting feelings"
    For example, if a doctor told me I had cancer, it wouldn't hurt my feelings, but I'd be mad as h@#$$!
    I don't think an honest evaluation would hurt my feelings, but I think there is where the importance lies. I think I'm pretty good at sensing when someone is sincere vs. just plain nasty.
    Or maybe I'm insensitive and just don't have hurt feelings easily. (shrugging shoulders).
    Also, I don't like to argue, but I like to investigate ideas and love to debate.


    #11943 - 03/18/08 08:57 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: incogneato]
    acs Offline

    Registered: 03/05/07
    Posts: 797
    On the issue of what to say/what not to say, I had a conversation several years ago with a "defensive" homeschooler at a basketball camp. I didn't know she was homeschooling her daughter and we were talking about how our kids were learning to get along with other kids. Our conversation went something like this.

    Me: Oh, what grade is your daughter in?
    HS mom: Well, she's 5 so she should be in kindergarten. But we homeschool and she is already reading on a first grade level.
    Me: (biting my tongue furiously): Oh, that's lovely. So I was just thinking that as a five year old, it makes sense....(bringing the conversation back to the original topic).

    It was really her tone that got me and the implication that her child was ahead because she was HSing--it was definitely a holier-than-thou tone. And I remain proud to this day that I didn't say what popped into my head, which was, "Wow, my son's in first grade a the local PS, but he's reading at the 7th grade level. Maybe you should consider PS since clearly they are doing a better job with my DS than you are with your DD."

    From the perspective of distance, though, I do see her challenge in figuring out the right response to "what grade is your DD in?" I can see it would be something of a trick question if you have left the grade boxed life behind. I like to think she has refined her response a bit over the years.

    So I don't have any advice on what to say, but I can say that this mother's response was most definitely a conversation killer!

    #11945 - 03/18/08 09:14 PM Re: Defensive Homeschoolers? [Re: acs]
    st pauli girl Offline

    Registered: 01/29/08
    Posts: 1917
    This is a great post. Since we're new to this whole HG+ business, I love learning about all the different experiences. We are hoping our PS will be able to accommodate our DS4, but HS will be our back-up plan. Our district does allow part-time HS, so we're lucky there. Since HSing is in our stockpile of options, I had already given some thought to what to say to people who ask why are you homeschooling: "Bad allergies."

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