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    +1,000 DeeDee.

    DS8 got an AS diagnosis last year, and I am still, from time to time, picking up those DSM criteria wondering what I missed, and whether we really have the right label.

    For example I would have put B1 as a no, but the neuropsych found him to be a "textbook example", the kind of case that she could use to illustrate the symptom in conferences and trainings. She evaluated him smack in the middle of his first real research project for the school's science fair, and true, the only thing he talked about for 6 weeks was his research subject. I never considered his interests (animals, rocks, science...) as abnormal in focus or intensity, but then... I was the one who lived and breathed Greek and Roman mythology for a year at his age. With a GT label firmly established I got approving pats on the head and big proud smiles when I capped the reading with Homer's Illyad and Odyssey (unabridged). Without one... he gets AS and I get lectures on redirecting his interests (apparently asking me to look up information/videos on animals on Wikipedia is a red flag).

    B3 was also raised -- I had never noticed (or recognized) hand flapping, but apparently he does it? I have scourged YouTube for examples and observed him, I still see nothing.

    I read Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults (recommended here, would +1). Valuable read, made me even more confused.

    But anyway, the label is (excruciatingly slowly) getting us some help with the social issues at school. So I guess we got what he needed from it.


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    Oh, and get an eval from somebody who knows both gifted and 2E. Because AS girls are supposedly much harder to ID, and HG girls even more so.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    I have thought about looking for a social skills group for her, but am not sure that's really what's needed. It's like she needs...coping class, more than anything. More skills to manage her emotions.

    If you find a solution, let us know. It has been a huge issue for my son. His current social skills group actually works on it, mostly through social stories, but I don't think they really teach practical tools for the kids to better regulate their emotions.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    I have thought about looking for a social skills group for her, but am not sure that's really what's needed. It's like she needs...coping class, more than anything. More skills to manage her emotions.

    Originally Posted by SiaSL
    If you find a solution, let us know. It has been a huge issue for my son. His current social skills group actually works on it, mostly through social stories, but I don't think they really teach practical tools for the kids to better regulate their emotions.

    We've done a number of things in this regard.

    1. The book Parenting Your Asperger Child (Alan Sohn) has a great strategy- I think he calls it "deliberate sabotage." Basically, you take the child a bit further out of their comfort zone, and over time they adapt. (If your child only likes one brand of bread, "run out" of it and offer a different kind, encouraging the child to deal with it; make sure he loses games sometimes, after pre-teaching how to act when you lose; etc.) This is a practical way to teach coping. Most parents adapt to a child who melts down by accommodating the child's preferences-- but in fact, that's not the best route to resilience.

    2. DS actually took a course, kind of an "autism and me" thing, at the autism center of our local children's hospital. They taught anxiety management and things like "how to recognize that I'm getting upset, and what I can do about it." It was not a cure-all, but it was important. It also showed DS that AS was not his fault, which was hugely important and eased his overall anxiety about his place in the world. Feeling different can be devastating for an elementary-schooler who doesn't have a context for why he feels that way.

    3. Cognitive-behavior therapy seeks to alter how a person responds to given stimuli. We have done a fair bit of this with DS, mostly around things that make him anxious. (Filling out the planner in the morning at school, for instance; we practiced it using CBT strategies and he is much better about it now.) CBT teaches that managing thoughts will also influence feelings, so by changing how you think you change how you feel; and a gifted kid can pick up the strategies fairly easily, though the practice of them takes time.

    I never found a social skills group that worked for us; we made our own supported environments by being involved with group activities, always with a parent in tow until DS could handle it on his own.

    HTH,
    DeeDee

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    Quote
    With a GT label firmly established I got approving pats on the head and big proud smiles when I capped the reading with Homer's Illyad and Odyssey (unabridged). Without one... he gets AS and I get lectures on redirecting his interests (apparently asking me to look up information/videos on animals on Wikipedia is a red flag).

    See, I don't know what I think about this! To some extent that sounds like pathologizing a natural behavior of the gifted.

    My DS3 has never inspired even a moment of worry in me that he has an ASD (which is another check in the column of "something is up with DD") but he is currently OBSESSED with deep-sea life. His interest is more all-consuming than DD's have ever been. But really--that kid is not not not ASD. He's just not. He's pretty damn smart, though! So...why is the behavior okay when the child doesn't have other flags and not okay if the child does? How sure are we, really, that these behaviors are part of the problem?

    (Some of this is just philosophical musings on my part. I find myself very interested in the question of when brain/behavior differences are pathological and when they're just interesting differences.)

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    That said, I am interested in CBT and think it could work well for DD. I want to help her with the things that are making her (and us) unhappy.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    To some extent that sounds like pathologizing a natural behavior of the gifted.

    My DS3 has never inspired even a moment of worry in me that he has an ASD (which is another check in the column of "something is up with DD") but he is currently OBSESSED with deep-sea life. His interest is more all-consuming than DD's have ever been. But really--that kid is not not not ASD. He's just not. He's pretty damn smart, though! So...why is the behavior okay when the child doesn't have other flags and not okay if the child does? How sure are we, really, that these behaviors are part of the problem?

    When DS went to preschool and kindy and tried to make conversational contact with other children on the basis of very weird scientific interests of his, it became a serious social problem for him.

    Some socially and intellectually gifted kids I know are better at adapting-- they can turn on the unusual topics sometimes, and they show a good bit of all-around smartness and engagement with the world, but they can turn the unusual topics off when they're among kids who aren't interested, and they know the difference. What DS lacks is that flexibility, and it's a real hindrance. As far as I can tell, that's a big part of the AS in his case, and distinguishes him from non-AS gifted kids.

    Some of DS's intellectual interests at various points have been anxiety-driven, as when he learned everything about clouds and weather because he was afraid of storms. In that case it's control-driven, not an abstract interest. But some of them truly are abstract interests, gifted stuff, carried to an extreme degree and less able to regulate or shut off appropriately.

    DeeDee

    Edited to add: We do not discourage all the special interests as mere "symptoms" (indeed they are pretty amazing and valid interests), but we do encourage "right time and place" for different topics... we do not talk about higher math in Sunday School...

    Last edited by DeeDee; 01/19/12 02:24 PM.
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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    I want to help her with the things that are making her (and us) unhappy.

    That is the main thing. Send them into the world equipped to use well whatever talents they have, to make themselves and others happy. That's a goal for us too. May we all get there.

    DeeDee

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    Quote
    When DS went to preschool and kindy and tried to make conversational contact with other children on the basis of very weird scientific interests of his, it became a serious social problem for him.

    Some socially and intellectually gifted kids I know are better at adapting-- they can turn on the unusual topics sometimes, and they show a good bit of all-around smartness and engagement with the world, but they can turn the unusual topics off when they're among kids who aren't interested, and they know the difference. What DS lacks is that flexibility, and it's a real hindrance. As far as I can tell, that's a big part of the AS in his case, and distinguishes him from non-AS gifted kids.

    Right, right--I see how it could be a problem if it affects socialization negatively. In DD's case, she has never bothered uninterested people with her enthusiasms and seems to know that other kids do not care about warblers. In fact, I would say she keeps her enthusiasms close to the vest.

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    I'm bumping this up because our appointment with DD's ped is coming up and I want to ask for a referral, but am not sure to whom. Developmental ped or neuropsych or therapist or what? I would say I have Asperger's, anxiety, depression, ADHD, or family/discipline dysfunction (ie, she is just a challenging kid and we need help with strategies) all on the list as potential reasons why DD is struggling. To review, we have no behavior problems at school, lots at home. Naturally, right now we are having a smoother time and now I feel like this is not as needed, but it always goes in cycles. FWIW, she just had a birthday party with some other gifted friends and she seemed so beautifully socially integrated and liked...

    Last edited by ultramarina; 02/07/12 08:51 AM.
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