Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school New here, any suggestions?

I've done some websurfing and read many different lists of normal milestones, and I really can't get a feeling for what normal is, because of all the inconsistencies.

For instance, RUF level 2 says
"between ages three and four, they count small groups of objects"

I've seen lists stating that "normal" 3 year olds can count up to 5 objects. I've seen other lists claim that normal 3 year olds can usually only count 1 object.

I saw a list the other day that said most children can't tell you how old they are until they're 4.

Another strange thing I keep seeing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me is block stacking. Lists will claim that it's normal to stack X number of blocks at 2, Y number of blocks at 3, and Z blocks at 4. I don't understand how you can stack 7 blocks but not 12. I know at some point a well stacked tower gets wobbly, but that's well after 12 I think. I have a similar feeling about puzzles. Once the puzzle is big enough that the picture contains more than 1 or 2 items, what's the difference? It seems like the difference between 50 pieces and 5000 is attention span, to me.

The other thing that's unfathomable to me is the supposed late use of adjectives and prepositions. I've seen lists claiming 3 year old children use 2 or 3 adjectives, and the same number of prepositions. I know the folly of anecdotal evidence and small sample sizes, but of the 6 toddlers I know, 5 of them know and use a lot more than that.

At any rate, I really wish I knew what normal was. Does anyone have a particularly trustworthy list of normal milestones?

DDA2- I know what you mean. I wish I had my hands on another kid to quiz them, but as my sister pointed out most toddlers don't have facts and names memorized TO quiz them on. I feel my peditrician's office takes a very conserative view of what kids can and should be doing at a certain age. My old "What to Expect the Toddler Years" which I haven't looked at in years says that by 36 months your child "may possibly be able to" name four colors. Since R was signing 6 colors by 12 months I simply can't believe the average two year old can't do that.

utkallie- No one believed me until they saw the video that R could read words she couldn't speak. She could read by signing well known words at 18 months, well before she began speaking these words. I still have my secret autism fears, the other day when she flipped her fire truck over and spun the wheels, my heart stopped. She likes to adhere to her own routine (which she doesn't describe in advance) and kind of freaks out if I deviate from her plans. Also if she "messes up" while painting she will melt down.
Thank you everyone for the book suggestions. We just got back from the library and they don't have any of them, lol. So I'll be ordering them I suppose. Thanks again for all your support.

You say she will have a melt down if she messes up. Makes sense to me. Remember these gifted kids are HIGHLY perfectionistic and will have a hard time tolerating failure.
It may even get to the point where they will not even TRY doing something they know they won't master immediately. With DS4 I try to encourage the fact that he is TRYING and if he does something well I compliment the EFFORT. I actually never tell him that he is smart and don't like when others do either. I feel it will set this high standard in his mind to ALWAYS be smart and make him not want to do something unless he knows he can do it. I will say instead "Wow, that is great! You tried really hard to do that and look what you did! Wonderful!"

Seems it takes a bit of the pressure to perform perfectly away. I will tell him that as long as he tries hard, that is all he can do. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

DAD22, this whole thing about counting objects. I didn't know they are not "supposed" to do this until age 3. DS is 23 months and just counted 9 toy cars correctly yesterday. Interesting.

My guess is that in addition to being gifted, she is 'Intense.' So here's another Book suggestion for parenting Intense kids -
"Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook" by Lisa Bravo.

I would also encourage you to use us to brainstorm ways of getting her 'internal plan' out into the open. For example, can you cut out pictures of her common activities and put them onto index cards (I used clear packing tape to strengthen and attach the pictures) and let her sort them into the order she is planning to do them it?

I can tell you that I get a little 'gulp' feeling over the idea that you can't at least split the decision making about how the day is going to go for fear that she'll melt down. If you can't get to a place where there is a daily schedule that suits you in place, using the ideas in 'Transforming' then I'd get some help. I'm sort of one of those 'flexible' sorts of parents, so if it was all the same to me if my son ate breakfast first or got dressed first I didn't give a fig. But it's so easy to slide from flexible into 'I'm accomidating him so he doesn't melt down.'

So maybe I misunderstood what you meant to say. If so - sorry! If not, let's get into some details and brainstorm, ok?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Grinity- thanks for the great idea! I think she would enjoy planning her day in that way. She has been on a rather strict schedule for the majority of her life, only the activities change. The problems come mostly from changing/ending activities or my choosing the "wrong" activity in the first place. I think discussing and planning the day in the morning would really help. In addition to "circletime" and an hour of storytime, free and guided play etc she has for 4 months been having two 30 minute "classes" each day. I call them "preschool" for lack of a better word. She has English (reading,writing) Math (we have moved from shapes to counting and simple arithmitic), Science(nature), History (it's all geography and cultural studies right now), Classic Literature (Winnie the Pooh, Beatrix Potter etc) as well as Art, Music and Gymnastics. I really try to keep these sessions to a half an hour or less but she often throws a tantrum when I want to stop. Art is impossible for me to end and if she is painting it may go on over an hour and even through meal-times.
Even if I immediatley engage her in something else the transition is very difficult. My parents recently visited and she basically forced me to carry on with our routine rather then entertain our guests.
Sorry to write a novel. It may sound like a hellish situation but sometimes many days will go by with her being rather complient. It may just be wearing on my mind since today was a tough one (at dinnertime she stood at her map screaming "Russia please!" at the top of her lungs). This is why I worried about Autism for a long time. Thank you to everyone who has replied. This is really a wonderful and supportive forum.

Sounds like you are one the right track. Keep journaling and writing novels. You need to get it out so that 'other' parts of your brain can be activated to help you. Plus we like knowing we aren't alone in this.

Our situation has it's hellish dimensions. That's why I worry that you are overfunctioning without help. 'One can boil a frog if one goes slowly enough' So try the book 'Transforming' and get some help if that doesn't do the trick. You can teach transitions, you can teach self control, you can even teach her to meditate. She is lovely and marvelous, but she needs a parent to maintain an independent perspective and parent, not just be the biggest cheerleader. I say this because I was/am more of the cheerleader type by nature.

find some friends with kids of a similar age, even if you don't actually 'like' them, just so you can get some outside perspective. Keep looking for the ones you like, but start somewhere. ((wink))


I think you are brave and wise to post here. Go You!
Love and more love,
grinity

Also - what would happen if you did as much Math as she wanted on Monday, as much Science as she wanted on Tuesday, as much English as she wanted on Wednesday (etc) up to about 3 hours, and then let her do art to her hearts content on the 'non-playdate' days? I'm just curious. There was a popular diet in the US about 20 years ago called 'Deal a Meal' and on Monday one got a deck of cards that counted for a serving of protein or fat, etc. One could use the cards at will but had to make them last the week. I woke up wondering if your DD would be happier with that sort of structure?

Smiles,
Grinity

Here is where the "normal" milestones got their start and I see a huge number of cites when I dig into bibliographies or talk to people who know.

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....old_Gesell_Child_Develop.html#Post113991

I also think this is the source of "Don't Accelerate"