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the ped is wanting to diagnose ADHD. We have two more appointments before I feel I can really go with that, one with a LD specialist and one with a 2e psych from Hoagie's. Our school has never suggested this diagnosis, so they have only focused on her behavior, not the possibility that she needs a medical intervention for behavioral ones to work, etc...

How many doctors did it take to convince you that your child has ADHD? How many tests and how in depth were they? Did the school suggest it to you or was your ped the first to suggest it? Did you medicate right away or try behavior/diet interventions? Do you wish you had known/tried meds sooner? If your child is on meds now, how do you feel that is going?

DH is out of town until mid Dec, so I am basically handling it all myself. Ped knows I am shocked she suggested meds first, even though she is hesitant to write actual dx of ADHD. I'm really taken off guard by this possibility, on the the other hand, so many times I have wished for a "magic pill" to make it better for DD. I need a lot more info and would appreciate hearing your stories.

DH just informed me that he is actually not surprised to hear all this. His younger brother and nephew (son of a different brother) were on ADD meds as kids. And he says he remembers the difference when they took it vs didn't. THAT would have been helpful to know!

On the topic of magic pills, is your DD taking Omega-3 supplements with high EPA and DHA? They are often helpful for people with ADHD, and have lots of other health benefits as well. They typically take a few weeks to start showing benefits.

no, we don't use any medicines, vitamins, etc unless I suspect someone has a cold. Each of my 2 DD's has been to the doctor ONE TIME for an ear infection, nothing else ever. I rarely even give them tylenol.

We could try that...do you have a brand that you like?

Either of these is good and usually acceptable to children:

http://naturalfactors.com/ca/en/products/849/learning-factors-advanced-school-aid

http://www.nordicnaturals.com/en/Products/Product_Details/515/?ProdID=1468

With DD9, we knew she had ADHD when she was a preschooler. Actually, we even joked about it when she was two years old. It was not a shock at all, we actually wanted to pursue the diagnosis, but waited until she was in school so we could get feedback from her teachers in case it was just that way at home. The school knew our concerns from the onset, but they waited until the end of first grade to finally agree with us that her attention was not improving and that it was interfering even when she was really trying to pay attention. We did go to medications pretty soon on after the diagnosis. By that point, we had already tried everything we could think of... supplements, behaviour modification, etc, and knew that it had little effect with her. And, hell yeah, we wished we had not waited until second grade to get the officially diagnosis. Her primary year was HORRIBLE. She is still recovering from it four years later. For her diagnosis, her pediatrician used the Connors questionnaires as a basis to start therapy and then referred her for a psych ed assessment. Because there was a four months wait for the assessment, we opted to start the med before the assessment. Even then, the pysch. confirmed the ADHD diagnosis (WISC, WIAT-II, CTOPP, WRAML2, GORT + teacher and parental questionnaires).

The past two years have had their ups and downs and we are still trying to find optimal dosing. Unfortunately, DD is very sensitive to the meds and suffers from mood lability. She only tolerates biphentin and, at that, a low dose. She just saw the pediatrician yesterday and I was very proud of her for speaking up for herself well at this appointment. She told me ahead of time that school was 'impossible' this year because she just could not concentrate no matter how hard she tried. SHE asked to try a dose increase again. The ped suggested to use the higher dose (20mg) on school days and go back to the lower dose (15mg) on the weekends, or to even alternate the two if her moods are a problem again. In the past, I suffered a lot of guilt during dosing trials. Now, I am happy that DD has started advocating for herself. She knows what she needs and wants and it is important to let her participate in managing her ADHD. To confound things, she was just diagnosed with dyslexia. The pediatrician pointed out to DD that her problems paying attention and getting work down won't be magically fixed with a higher dose, as the dyslexia is probably a big contributor. We really need to get the new accomodations in place and then reassess.

Good luck with your decisions. You have to do what is right for your family and your child, and no one can make that decision but you. I will say that, originally, DH was reluctant for DD to start meds. Her teacher talked with him about it and used her own child as an example. She compared ADHD to any other medical condition and pointed out that he would never refuse to medicate her for a medical illness if there was a treatment available. In the end, he agreed to a month long trial. He changed his mind after one week, when DD told him that her brain was no longer 'itchy'. Now, he is pursuing an ADD diagnosis for himself. My suggestion... keep an open mind about all suggested interventions!

My DS7 is in the 3rd grade also and he moved to a new school this year for a self contained HG program. We had him assessed with the WISC to apply to the program and he is above the 99.9% GAI so he is where he needs to be academically. He has struggled with behavior in the past two years at school (he was mid year grade skipped last year) but has consistently scored very high on achievement/ability tests. We were hopeful that a better academic fit would be the answer to his behavior issues but we got an email from his teacher about a month ago expressing behavior concerns.

He is currently undergoing a full neuropsych evaluation which has consisted of a classroom visit by the psychologist, about 4 hours of one on one assessments by the psychologist, extensive questionnaires filled out by both his teacher and us. After that is all done, the psychologist with write the report/recommendations and meet with us to discuss it.

Although I never thought of ADD before, I would not be surprised if he has the disorder and has just been able to mask it because everything was always so easy for him. This is the first time that he has had to actually concentrate and put in some effort (especially with writing). He has always been a highly intense and spirited child. Plus, there is a family history of ADD. I am kind of at the beginning of my gifted/possible ADD journey but we should know more in a few weeks.

Oh, and by the way, no educational professional has ever suggested that DS has ADD. However, because he is obviously highly gifted, I wanted the full eval to rule it out or in and to try to figure out what is going on if he does not have ADD. And, I did start giving him Omega 3s about 3 weeks ago - we give the Nordic Naturals. I have also been trying the Nurtured Heart Approach at the suggestion of Grinity. Both seem to be having some effect but we still have good days and not so good days.

Deonne-we are in a similar place, it was the ped who said it last Friday and it turns out we also have some family history. I am also pursuing a full eval with a private psych and the ped is writing a referral...plus now I'm really going to push the school for a learning disability assesment

Which book does a parent start with in regards to the "Nurtured Heart Approach"?

Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook -that is the only one I purchased. It is good because it states it step by step and is set up to implement the approach right away. Good luck.

I think that the best book for parents and teachers to start with is 'transforming the difficult child WORKBOOK' by Lisa Bravo

It's one of those workbooks that is totally fine on it's own.

Enjoy,
Grinity

Thank you, both.

We are currently in the middle of this journey. I never in my life would have thought DS9 had ADHD. I'm still not convinced. Our situation is complicated by a diagnosis of dyslexia and sensory processing disorder. He is currently in 4th grade. It was actually his 3rd grade teacher that hinted at the possibility of ADHD. She constantly complained that he seemed to not be paying attention and was always moving, fidgeting, etc. Sensory seeking is a part of sensory processing disorder, so I attributed most of this to the SPD diagnosis. Even his teacher eventually admitted that even though he seemed not to be paying attention, he could actually pipe up in the middle of a class discussion with very relevant and thought provoking comments.

BUT then we went for psych testing...WISC, WIAT, Conners assessment. The psych diagnosed ADHD-Inattentive and highly believed most of his issues would get better with meds. At this point we have gone through Straterra, Intuniv and Vyvance. All caused intolerable side effects (and I'm not a person that goes looking for side effects of medications). He is currently on Ritalin. We have been working on dosing over the past several weeks. We worked up to 15 mg each morning, but his teachers at school have not noticed a difference. (His teachers at school also say that, while he fidgets alot, he is doing well and they don't think he needs meds). His after school tutor for dyslexia, however, really thinks he needs meds, as she can't get him to stay still enough to get anything done in the afternoons. So I stopped giving him the Ritalin in the morning and tried giving it to him immediately after school, before his tutoring. I thought we had found the answer because his tutor said he did great the first day he was on the Ritalin. Unfortunately, none of the subsequent days has seen the same result. I increased the dose to 20 mg yesterday, still with no effect. It's very frustrating. I'm back to thinking that he doesn't have ADHD and that his ADHD-like behavior is all due to sensory processing/sensory seeking.

I'm sorry to ramble on. It was nice to vent. I guess my point is that there is no easy diagnosis and no easy solution.

Hi Perplexed,
I responded to this post here
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/114138.html#Post114138

I'm glad you got a chance to vent. It really makes a difference!
Smiles,
G

Perplexed, I just posted a topic in Parenting that asks some of the same questions you bring up here. I also have a sensory seeker and to me it seems like his physical "hyperactivity" is related to sensory overload in a sense, rather than the inability to pay attention. We have also had a few issues in school with him "not paying attention" although it hasn't been complained about too much. When I asked him about it, he said that he understood what the teacher was saying the first time she said it and he didn't see why he needed to listen to her repeat it several more times! So I also think that kids who pick up on things quickly may sometimes appear to be inattentive, but like your DS, are perfectly capable of participating even when they don't appear to be paying attention.

I also think there are expectations about what someone who is paying attention looks like: sitting still, quiet, eyes on the speaker. But one can assume this position without really paying attention OR, especially for sensory seekers, one could be paying attention without being still or looking directly at the speaker. And then how frustrating to be scolded for not paying attention!

I believe being gifted is like a learning disability in the average school. I recall reading about the 7-yo exceptionally gifted boy who, when asked what doctors do, could not answer. After all, there are so many different doctors for so many things. He almost certainly felt dumb and humiliated. Every other child in an average class could answer the question, just as the teacher expected.

Rinse and repeat this feeling of being dumb or not fitting in multiple times every day for a child of that variety, and what do you expect them to do? Fidget, fuss, doodle, clown, stare, daydream. Are they supposed to conjure a non-existent inner Zen master and sit patiently and without thought while the rest of the class and the teacher work toward conclusions that he, seemingly by intuition, grasped long ago? What's the point? Why am I here? That leaf on the tree outside is so much more interesting...

Add even a minor ADHD or learning disability into the mix and it functions like a huge monkey wrench. The anxiety and self-image issues and coping strategies such a situation would generate may soon eclipse and obscure the root causes.

All that to say, I'm practically talking myself into homeschooling here.

@ Pru: "LIKE" I think you really nailed it there, very well put.

Lots of children with sensory processing disorders also have retained infantile reflexes, which can make sitting still in a classroom almost impossible. There is also a link between sensory processing disorders and cerebellar dysfunction, which can likewise make sitting still difficult. Children who have poor proprioception (often an aspect of a sensory processing disorder) frequently move constantly just so that they can be aware of where their bodies are in space. If they don't move and fidget, they have a hard time balancing or telling what position their body is in. Stimulants won't help this. A sensory diet of frequent heavy work, "buzzing and brushing", and deep proprioceptive input, along with activities that help reintegrate infantile reflexes and improve balance and coordination can help many children with these issues be better able to sit still.

ETA: Perhaps sharing this information with the O-G tutor will make her back off a bit on her insistence that your child needs to be still while learning...

If his teachers think he doesn't need meds, have you thought of not doing the meds?
I'm reading a very interesting book called Anatomy of an epidemic by Robert Whitaker. It talks about the use/overuse of psych drugs in America. They have a chapter on ADD/ADHD drugs. In it, the author talks about how there are no real, long-term studies that show that taking these meds lead to better grades, etc. long-term. He talks about how these meds have alot of side effects including provoking mental illness (mania/bipolar) in some kids, stunting their growth, etc.
Sometimes I wonder how many kids who end up on meds really needed them. So the kid is fidgety, big deal. Deal with it! I'm sure a teacher, frankly, would rather have a room full of medicated, zombie-like kids than a bunch of active, free-thinking ones!
Anyway... just food for thought. (My kids do not have ADD/ADHD or take meds, but we have lots of friends who do).

yeah, what you said Pru

I remember that feeling myself. Interestingly enough, it got worse as I got older, I guess my coping mechanisms also increased though and I do (and don't have to force myself) appreciate a wide variety of people for the variety they bring to life. But I have had that feeling in COLLEGE even! A feeling of "geez, did you people even OPEN your book last night?" That there IS such a thing as a "dumb question" and yeah, that leaf...lol!

I observed DD8 2/3 split class today (don't EVEN get me started on THAT, she is in the 3rd grade part, ugh!) and it was controlled chaos at best DD has ALWAYS been sensitive to noise and has complained many times about other people's talking distracting her...I think I have MYSELF practically talked into homeschool *sigh*

Aculady- DS9 does have proprioceptive issues...proprioceptive and vestibular issues are his primary sensory problems (along with a tactile oversensitivity)...thus the excessive movement.

I have definitely considered not doing the meds. In fact, we have had far more days this school year without meds than with. Obviously, I don't want to medicate him if he doesn't need it. At the same time, if meds will make things better for him, then I'm not against giving them. Yes, he can get by without them....I can tell the tutor to suck it up and deal with his fidgeting.... but could he reach his true potential with the medication? You have to remember that his teacher who says he is doing "fine" without the meds, is teaching all levels of students. Sure my HG child is performing above average without medications, but could it be easier for him if he could focus? But then we go back to whether the issue is focus or just boredom. Ugh, it just goes in one big circle.

I don't mean to have hi-jacked this thread, but while I'm discussing DS9, I'll update you on his medication trial from yesterday. Yesterday, I gave him Ritalin 20mg a full hour before tutoring. She said he was far less fidgety and was able to concentrate more. At the same time, he was more talkative than usual. Then, in physical therapy, he was able to follow patterns much easier than normal. He did not act silly or goofy or anything like he normally acts. At the same time, he seemed really "down" to me and he was constantly yawning saying he felt like he couldn't get a big enough breath. This is really sooooooo hard!!! I don't want to hurt him by giving him meds and I don't want to hurt him by withholding meds. Sigh.

Big hugs, perplexed!!! It is so very hard to sit by and watch the 'experiment'. I hope you get things sorted out. And I agree about the 'one big circle' bit. If you ever suss out the chicken and the egg... please share!

Oh, that is so tough perplexed. I hope you get it figured out. FWIW, I think your approach makes sense. I was wondering, though, given your son's sensory issues, has the OT given you a sensory diet for him? If so, what effect does that have? I was just thinking that if his movement is from SPD rather than ADHD, then perhaps you can find a soothing sensory activity to do before tutoring or throughout the day that might have a similar effect to the Ritalin without the side effects? My DS8 is also in OT for fine motor delay and proprioceptive & vestibular issues. We are just in the first few weeks of it, though, so we are still experimenting ourselves with finding the right sensory diet for him.

In the other thread I posted, I was thinking about the boredom issue too, and whether gifted kids may seem to have ADHD because they are faced with more "boring" activities on a daily basis than ND kids. So even if they are reacting similarly, the number of instances for gifted kids would be higher, making it seem like they have a lower tolerance. But then, some kids are gifted AND ADHD and we still come back to the question of how do you tell the difference between a misdiagnosis and a dual diagnosis.

Sigh. Really wish these kids came with manuals!

My DS10 also takes Ritalin 20mg but his is LA and stretches over 10 hours. I also noticed some moodiness etc. at first but within a few weeks it went away although on a day he doesn't eat it might pop up. Overall it has been a real positive for him. Sometimes you need to give it a while if you are seeing positive effects.

Thank you all for your encouragement.

Breakaway, I think you are right...I'm not being patient enough. I need to give it some time.

LNEsMom- We have tried a sensory diet of sorts. At school, his teacher often has him run errands, move heavy books, pass out papers, etc. This really does seem to help. The most soothing activity for him, though, is swinging(on the OT kind of swings..not playground swings). Unfortunately, these kinds of swings are not readily available outside of OT. As a word of encouragement to you...we have been in OT a little over a year and his sensory issues have REALLY improved. He still has a tactile oversensitivity, but now he recongizes what it is and is able to communicate that he doesn't like the feel of something.

wondering what the earlier signs some of you saw in your children's behavior that made you suspect add/adhd at an early age?
i've got a very busy bright boy- hard to say some days what is normal busy boy, and what may be more ADHDishness?
DH probably has some ADHD as does his mom- but more inattentiveness/daydreaming quality + likely central auditory processing disorder... hmmm

Thanks for the encouragement, perplexed. We are just beginning the OT, so it is good to hear from someone who saw good results. We are trying to figure out his sensory diet, it is weird how some activities sort of rile him up and some are calming, and hard to figure out which is which.

And those OT swings are awesome. I saw a place online once that will install them in your home, but you have to have the space for something like that, which we really don't.

These swings?
http://www.amazon.com/CHILLY-SWING-RELAXING-OCCUPATIONAL-THERAPY/dp/B001V6POUS

Hmm, I wonder if that would work as well. The one's at therapy actually have several different choices, platforms, one that sort of like a log-shaped cushion that they lay on, but the one that the sensory seekers often like the best is basically a piece of material hooked at the top. They lay in it and it envelops them like a cocoon while they are swinging. Seeker heaven, lol! But that one is a cool alternative!

When we first talked to some dr's and counselors about our son's behavior (I want to say he was 3 at the time?) one of the things they explained was that hyperactivity and attention span are not very good indicators of ADHD in young (below school age) children. Inability to consider consequences is really the better indicator. IE: Jumping off furniture and doing other dangerous things without any consideration, repeatedly doing something regardless of how many times you've punished them, etc. The majority of kids with ADHD have an executive function disorder - they literally cannot control themselves. They may KNOW what they are meant to do, but they just can't.

The way you put this really struck me as to how difficult it must be for the kids who experience this. Gifted kids are used to knowing and doing. It must be really frustrating for them that they know but can't control certain behaviors. One time my DS said to me that he really wanted to pay attention and finish some tedious task but his mind just would not let him.