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    #11308 - 03/12/08 09:11 AM Questions about GAI
    amamama Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/09/08
    Posts: 13
    Hi Everyone,

    I'm new to this forum and wondered if I could get some insight on IQ testing results. I've read several posts and I'm amazed with the knowledge and experience you all have!
    My quesiton has to do with the WISCIV. We were given both the FSIQ and GAI scores for my DD6 and they seem to tell different things. I understand why the GAI is used and looked through the Technical Report #4. I wonder if anyone has had any experience with the GAI in practical terms. Do schools/programs view it as a valid measure? When looking at educational programming issues, how much weight should we place on the GAI?
    I appreciate any thought or insights you may have.

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    #11350 - 03/12/08 01:01 PM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: amamama]
    snowgirl Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/24/08
    Posts: 361
    It may depend on the specifics of the scores and what you're trying to do with them, but we were advised by the Gifted Development Center that the FSIQ on the WISC IV, in my DD7's case, just isn't accurate, and that the GAI should be used instead, because there is a 26-point difference between her scores on the highest and lowest sections of the test. In DD7's case, it could well mean the difference between getting into gifted programming and not getting into gifted programming, depending on the cutoff. We haven't tested this out since we have not used those scores to apply to anything yet, and probably won't (they also suggested that her scores will go up based on some stuff we're doing, e.g. vision therapy, and recommended testing again two years after the first test). So, I guess in our case, pretty much a 2E situation, we're putting a lot of weight on the GAI and none on the FS score.

    At our post-test conference, the testers spoke about this GAI stuff more as official fact, but in the written report it seems more like an argument rather than a fact, which indicates to me that some controversy exists.

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    #11360 - 03/12/08 02:32 PM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: snowgirl]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    I'm with snowgirl. I think which to pay attention to is really determined by what you're trying to accomplish with the scores.

    For example, I am home schooling my DS6 (aka darling son aged 6yo), so the fact that on the WISC, his processing speed score was over 40 points below his PRI and his working memory score was about 30 point below his PRI was significant info for me. Before he took the WISC, I thought he was just a dawdler, and I tended to get frustrated with him a lot. But now I know that he's not necessarily dawdling, and frustration probably isn't a useful response on my part. His average-range PS score is acting as a bottleneck (to use the term Grinity gave me) for what he can do. The GAI tells me what he would be capable of if his lower memory and speed scores weren't getting in his way.

    As a result, I have some useful info about how he works, and I can adjust the type of work I do with him so that I'm not always nagging him to hurry up. That's helpful to me!

    So I think ALL the results *can* be useful, depending on what you're doing with them.

    Now, if you're just asking "Will the school accept the GAI instead of the FS for entrance into a GT program?", that I don't know. You'd probably have to check with the school.

    Are we getting at what you want to know here?

    If not, maybe more specifics about your particular situation would be useful?

    K-
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #11388 - 03/12/08 04:18 PM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: Kriston]
    amamama Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/09/08
    Posts: 13
    Thanks, Snowgirl and Kriston. Your insights are very helpful. I am in a similar situation as snowgirl in that the FSIQ score would not qualify DD6 for some selective programs (ie. Young Scholars and a program in our area for those scoring in 99.9%) but her GAI would. The discrepancy between VCI and and working memory was 34 pts and between PRI and processing speed was 32 pts. And, like Kriston's son, I see where she could be viewed as a dawdler.
    I guess the scores are helpful in terms of being aware of how memory and speed may hinder her ability to work on material quickly. It is relevant for making sure that teachers don't apply this inability to judgments about cognitive capabilities. I plan to apply to the young scholars program (her VCI missed by 1 pt) and hope that they consider the GAI as well.


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    #11393 - 03/12/08 04:46 PM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: Dottie]
    amamama Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/09/08
    Posts: 13
    Thanks, Dottie.

    I think I'll send a copy of this along with my application!

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    #11396 - 03/12/08 05:14 PM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: amamama]
    acs Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/05/07
    Posts: 797
    FWIW,
    When we applied to DYS last year with a GAI over 145 and a VCI of 144, those were not considered qualifying scores. I was told that very specifically ("we have plenty of people who are meeting our requirements"). But it turned out that DS's achievement was not qualifying either (the wrong subtests had been done). If the achievement scores are well over the line, then it is probably worth applying.

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    #11399 - 03/12/08 05:28 PM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: Dottie]
    acs Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/05/07
    Posts: 797
    I also do not totally trust the WM subtests on the WISC. DS's were well below average on the WISC. But he hit the ceiling on the WM on the SB5! So is WM is just fine (better than fine) when he is engaged. The problem (as we saw on the WISC) is that if he is bored he does not engage his WM! He almost got an ADD diagnosis on the WISC, which probably wouldn't have been fair considering his 19 on the similar test on the SB5.

    He is a dawdler, but only when he is bored.

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    #11413 - 03/12/08 09:42 PM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: acs]
    amamama Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/09/08
    Posts: 13
    I have been wondering whether to apply for the YS program. The application is so lengthy but I figure it's free to try so I might as well. She has a qualifying math score on the WIAT which is the only reason I am going forward with it. It sounds like a great program.

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    #11422 - 03/13/08 06:09 AM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: amamama]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Sure! Worth a try! smile

    If I may offer some unsolicited advice: be sure you give them really strong anectdotal evidence in your answers to the questions. Remember that you want to distinguish your child from MG kids, not from ND (normally developing) kids. Using examples and stories that just show her to be GT won't be enough.

    I don't know if that helps you, but it helped me to choose what stories to use. It's a long application, but you still have to pick and choose, and asking myself "Could an MG kid do this?" was my best strategy. DH and I discarded several stories we could have used because they "didn't seem GT enough" compared to others we could share.

    FWIW...
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #11426 - 03/13/08 07:55 AM Re: Questions about GAI [Re: Kriston]
    Mia Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/18/07
    Posts: 533
    Loc: Chicago, Illinois
    Yes, it's worth a shot!

    Ds was in a similar situation as your dd; scores really close but not *quite*. His FSIQ was 4 points higher than his highest composite score, and his FSIQ was 2 points short of DYS cut-off. He wasn't accepted, but I can't say I blame them! He had two qualifying WIAT scores that I hoped would push him over the edge ... Ah well.

    Still, I had hopes, and I'd have hopes for you too! Definitely try for it -- it's such a great resource. I really liked filling out the application; it made me think of all the crazy things ds did that I just took for granted at the time. It was interesting!
    _________________________
    Mia

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