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    #11285 03/12/08 07:04 AM
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    Kriston Offline OP
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    This may be a little disjointed, so please bear with me as I try to talk through what's clumping up in my head...I could use some of the wisdom that's always so freely on tap here!

    List of disjointed but related thoughts:
    * I was thinking last night about Grinity's note that my DS3.5 may be GT, too, and how DS3 just doesn't seem *AS* GT as DS6 to me.
    * Then I was thinking about siblings not being able to participate in the DYS activities. Logical, sensible, necessary...but potentially difficult.
    * Earlier this week, a friend was asking me what we're going to do with DS3 for school: HS or public school? I'm still really up in the air--and naturally, a lot could change between now and 3 years from now!--but I know he'd be a lot harder for me to teach than DS6, so my first inclination is public school...even as I keep HSing DS6.
    * Finally, I was trying to explain DYS to DS6 (with DS3 listening) without making it sound like I think DS6 is "the smart one."

    My point to all of this? I adore both my kids and I think they're both wonderful and special in their own ways. But I also KNOW that they're very different and they will not always need/get the exact same treatment, not even from me.

    Now you know and I know that this is normal and healthy. But from a child's point of view, if I teach DS6 but not DS3--even if that's what's best for each of them--doesn't that seem like less love for DS3? If DS6 is in DYS and DS3 isn't, doesn't that make DS6 seem like "the smart one," no matter what skills and talents DS3 has? I don't want to limit DS3 *OR* DS6 like that, but I fear they're going to think that I am or that they will limit themselves.

    My own baggage: to this day, my parents try to do things EXACTLY the same for my (unmarried, with no kids) sister and I, to the point of giving us most of the same gifts for Christmas. If they give/loan one of us money, they offer the same amount to the other daughter. I don't think this is very effective, but I have a lot more sympathy for the strategy now that I'm facing the problem myself. If everything is the same, it's hard to argue that it's not equal...even if it isn't!

    I guess my real question is this: With one HG+ child and a younger one who might not be quite as GT, how do you keep things healthy?


    Kriston
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    Kriston Offline OP
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    One other thought: I had a cat who was the sweetest cat you could ever have. "P" was a runt, and she used to "nurse" on my earlobe as she snuggled up to me. It was just the most tender thing. But she was brain-damaged due to lack of oxygen at birth in addition to various problems related to being the runt, so she wasn't the brightest bulb in the box. Her brother cat and I had to clean her, because she forgot to do it. Not your typical cat. But I just adored her!

    I took her to the vet for a problem related to her not-smartness, so I told the vet that she was the sweetest cat ever, but that she was not smart. The vet looked at me like I was evil! How could I say that about my beloved pet! As if I were insulting P.

    No, I was just describing P. Accurately, I might add. It didn't mean I loved her any less. It just meant I understood her. (BTW, the indignant vet did a feline intelligence test on P: she folded her ear back and observed how long it took her to flip it back upright. The smartest cats won't let you flip it back at all, and the longer it takes, the less smart the cat. The vet waited 30+ minutes, and P never corrected the ear. The vet finally felt bad for P and corrected it herself. She sheepishly admitted this to me and said I was right. I loved the vet for that!)

    Anyway, that's kind of how I feel about this situation, though naturally DS3 is probably at least vanilla GT, and is certainly not brain-damaged. But I feel like in seeing him as he is, it may seem like there's some negative judgement attached that I don't intend.

    Long story, but maybe it helps to illustrate my sense of the situation.

    Oh, and I intend to have DS3 assessed when he gets past the 4yo hump. We'll see how fast he flips his ear up then, I guess! wink


    Kriston
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    Oh, Kriston. I wish I could help. I'm an only child w/ an only child, so I don't have the kind of insight you need. However, I'm glad that you have friends in this forum with similar issues and experience.

    One thing I do know is that your questions and concern are signs of a good momma.

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    Kriston Offline OP
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    You make me smile. Thanks!


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    My pleasure. You know I'll be rallying the troops on this forum as DS2 gets older. I'm flying by the seat of my pants in the "how to parent" department.

    Lots of chocolate for you and your friends today.

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    Kriston Offline OP
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    grin Chocolate back at you!


    Kriston
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    Kriston,

    My older brother would have thrived homeschooled. He didn't get that chance. But if I had had to be homeschooled because I him, I would have been miserable and I would have made the lives of those around me miserable too. If he had been homeshooled and I gone to PS, I imagine that I would have thought happily going off on the bus each morning, "Poor big brother he has problems in school, so he can't go. he has to stay home. Lucky me, I'm going to school!" LOL.

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    Kriston Offline OP
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    LOL, acs!

    Unfortunately, I don't think that would be the case here. DS3 is only in half-day preschool 3 pms per week, and he's already resisting, in part "because DS6 doesn't have to go." I think DS3 is an extrovert, but he's also a real fan of home and his own stuff.

    It doesn't help that the boys are joined at the hip the rest of the time. You'd think it would be a good thing that they usually get along pretty well...


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    Kristin,
    As a younger sib of a very gifted sibling I thought I'd take a stab at responding.

    First, according to our Psych, siblings rarely test more than 5-10 points different. If they do, it is a good clue to look into 2E issues.

    Second, read up on those sibling order dynamics again smile

    Interesting article, not sure how useful:
    http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10353.aspx

    Also, you are absolutely right in my opinion, no matter what your younger child's LOG, he will be different from your older son in how he learns and what his interests are. In fact, it may well be that he will subconsciously avoid the interests of your older son to forge his own identity. His needs will be different.

    I read a comment somewhere that said that "Fair does not = Same". Fair is meeting the needs of each child to the best of your ability even though the methods used may be very different. Honestly, how is this different from what we are trying to get across to the schools so often? We want our children to have the opportunity to get a fair education at their level. This is not generally the same education as their age peers or even siblings. Dottie, want to chime in here?

    Love the cat story, we had a brain damaged dog. We loved her dearly but our vet also was appalled when we called her clever but dumb. Then he sort of changed his mind when she lost all her teeth early because she tried to eat rocks...


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    Kriston Offline OP
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    LOL, elh! Love the rocks story! And it sounds familiiar. The medical situation that required my vet trip: P ate yarn. Lots of it. She had to be opened up in 3 places to pull it all out of her! Not bright...And not a very convenient obsession for her to have, since I'm a diehard knitter...LOL!

    OK, back to seriousness:

    I have wondered about 2E issues quite a bit in the past year, actually. It seems too early to tell, so I'm still in wait-and-see mode. My 2E radar is definitely primed though. I don't want to seem like a GT-obsessed nut who thinks DS3 has got LDs because he's not reading at 3! But then again, I know that he's very probably GT and doesn't seem to be showing it, and 2E often presents as ND. *sigh* Worry and wait, wait and worry...

    DS6 has virtually all the academic areas covered--he hasn't got a real weak spot academically, just a less-strong spot or two--so if DS3 is choosing to be GT differently, he'll probably do so in the creative arts. I do see some evidence of this. The kid's imagination is pretty out there! He was just telling me about making "bad-guy stew...with TWO bad guys in it!" laugh

    I completely agree with the "fair does not equal same" philosophy. I guess I'm just struggling a bit with how to translate that noble philosophy into real life...

    Now I'm off to read the article you suggested! Thanks!


    Kriston
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    Ann Offline
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    GT most definitely...

    1. OE,
    2. Time Machine, and
    3. Bad guy stew.

    = one fun GT little boy. grin

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    Kriston Offline OP
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    You're SO right, Ann! He's lots of fun. And so cuddly!

    Good article, BTW, elh. Thanks for the link. I am doing pretty much all of the things they list to keep negative rivalry to a minimum, so maybe I'm worrying more than I need to.

    Hopefully I am, anyway!


    Kriston
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    Kristin, I'm sure you are. I put the link in as a reassurance smile Now sit back cuddle the boys a few minutes and go knit (after a bowl of stew of course.) smile


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    Kriston Offline OP
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    laugh It's good to have e-friends!


    Kriston
    #11329 03/12/08 10:33 AM
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    Oh Kriston - I'm with Ann. I just posted on the other thread, but just the few things you posted about your little guy sound GT. And the rampant emotionalism? He may be more visual-spatial than your other DS too, which might change the way he is learning to read. My son didn't read until 5 willingly and then it was an overnight sensation. He's really likely to be within ballpark of his brother.

    I think it's ok to not be fair. Your parents were exactly like mine - they had to be fair all the time. And I just think that is too hard of a game to play. Every kid has different needs and when I'm not fair, I explain that and I give an example when I did something for kid A I didn't do for kid B. We're about to put this to the test because DS is about to get a new bike! And DD is about to get his cast off. And DS1 may be in DYS. But DS2 may be in a theatre club or something?

    On homeschooling, I kind of feel the same way! My DD LOVES preschool (much more than DS ever did), but next year if it is her brother and I dropping her off I wonder if she's going to change her tune. When kindergarten rolls around for her, if she REALLY wants to homeschool and we're still doing it, it will be hard to say no. Even though I see her as a much harder kid to homeschool. DS could practically homeschool himself. Anyway - I am trying not to think more than 6 months out with kid #2 either and see how she plays out. My son changed so much between 3 and 5.

    #11332 03/12/08 10:43 AM
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    Kriston, I have several thoughts.

    I am going to be in the same situation next year because I think my DS7 will test into the GT program whereas his older brother did not due to 2e issues. So do I not let DS7 be in the program because I don't want to hurt DS10's feelings? That wouldn't be fair to DS7 - he is his own person and I have already explained the 2e stuff to DS10. Your DS's are younger so that makes it harder.

    My younger sister was higher IQ than me but I never felt in any way inferior to her. In fact, I felt decidedly superior, I'm ashamed to admit, because of her general spaciness (she's definitely NOT an INTJ). I was also extremely jealous of her just for being born and I know if my mom had home schooled her and sent me off I would have been traumatized. However, acs noted that she would have had the opposite reaction.

    I was discussing my almost 3 year old nephew with his mother yesterday and she said she had already taken him to a visual specialist to check out some potential visual tracking problems. She said the specialist goes to her church and recommended her bringing him in as well as her almost year old daughter who appears to have some eye problems as well. So if you think your DS3 might have some sort of visual issue (and I believe we've discussed that before) it might not be too early to have it checked out. I'd just be sure to take him to a specialist as regular eye doctors don't seem to catch these things. (now I'm just remembering what I think we've discussed in previous posts - I apologize if I've remembered wrong)

    Mainly I think you will have to take your DS's general personalities, relationships, etc. into consideration when making your decision. He might be like acs and be thrilled to go to school or he might not. He is definitely GT anyway so all of this might not even be an issue in the future but I understand your wanting to think about it now.

    Don't know if this helps or not but I am sure you will make the right decision when the time comes. We all know you're a fantastic mother!

    kcab - I need to read that book. My boys tend to fight more than I wish they would. They are so very different.

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    Kriston,
    I have struggled somewhat with the same issue. Last year I was wondering if my DD5 was even gifted and how I was going to deal with what seemed to be the inequitities of having a PG child and a bright but not gifted child. During this time I began searching for my younger dd's gifts. I truly believe there is something special about each child we just have to discover what it is. I realized that she enjoys beautiful things like colors, fabric/clothes, and music. My younger dd inherited the musical genes from my DH's side of the family. She has incredible rhythm and an amazing voice. She can project like an opera singer, which can also be a curse for her mother. My younger dd is not interested in academics like her older PG sister. Just moments ago my little dd said, "School is dumb." I am currently homeschooling her (and doing a very poor job of it) until she is old enough to go to public school.

    My dds simply have different gifts. One is an artist and scholar while the other is a musician and designer. I try to expose both girls to a variety of experiences. Both girls take piano and art but at some point they will have to focus on their passion. Each has something special to offer the world.

    It is likely that I will eventually have to homeschool my older dd, but I do not think that homeschooling is the best thing for my younger dd. Ironically, we were discussing the homeschooling/public schooling issue in our local PG group the other day. There were five of us currently homeschooling one child while having another child in public or private school. One of the moms mentioned that the homeschooling community tends to frown on this but nobody in the PG group gave it a second thought. In the PG world you work so hard to find the right educational fit that you cannot be tied down by the expectations or traditions of society.

    Regarding the DYS issue. The only thing I have found where a sibling is excluded is the gathering. If attending the gathering is important to your YS, make that weekend a special opportunity for your other child in a different way. In our local PG group siblings are invited to participate in all activities. On the rare occasion that we (as parents) chose not to include the other sibling, we do something else special for her.

    I also have baggage from my childhood. My sister and I grew up with the understanding that I was the intellectual/driven one and she was the pretty/social one. We both accepted our respective "label" without receiving too much damage from it. Though I was really bummed when I found out as an adult that my sister had a higher IQ than I did. Now she is the pretty one and the smart one. (sigh) From my childhood baggage I make sure to tell both my children that they are smart and beautiful but I still recognize their unique gifts and encourage them to do what they love.

    As I was reading this thread, a thought did cross my mind. What would you do if your DS6 liked to play football and your 3 year old were a girl? Would you not let your son play football because his sister could not participate? Just something to think about. For some reason athletics is such a great parallel to intellectual giftedness, yet we do not question the way the levels of giftedness are valued and nutured in athletics.

    Sorry if I rambled.

    Summer



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    Kriston, I could have written your post to the t, except perhaps the public school part. I feel I am in the same boat.

    DS3 is gifted, but I don't think he is as gifted as DS5. I don't think he will be as good in math, I can sort of see him with very similar VIQ and PIQ scores and FIQ missing the DYS cut off by a few points. BTW I must be nuts thinking about DYS and DS3 at this point anyway.

    Till DS3 turned 15 months or so when somebody commented on my older one, I used to think, wait, you haven't seen my younger one yet. He seemed like he would take right over him, but I don't see that anymore. He has his own path and it's impossible to compare the two. He is better in some things, but there are things where he seems ages behind, but no matter how I look at it, he doesn't seem that gt.

    DS3 already keeps asking if he will be able to attend gifted weekend classes when he is 5. Fortunately the answer is yes, that part shouldn't be a problem. DYS gatherings may pose a problem, not now since he is not 5 yet, but later on.

    Lately lots of things were about DS5 - testing, gifted program, DYS, looking for schools, hs, ... I feel bad about it, DS3 gets pushed aside and I really need to make sure that we are feeding his brain too.

    Our DS3 too will attend Pre-K next year, at least I hope. As it is he is on another strike when it comes to attending his Montessori class. I am signing him up for a play preschool next year, the same one DS5 attended. Hopefully that will work better.

    Summer, I think it's easier to explain to a girl that girls don't play football then to a sibling that he doesn't have the abilities to participate in gt program.


    LMom
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    Kriston Offline OP
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    Thanks, all! laugh

    I should probably clarify: I have no intention of trying to treat my kids the same. That's not my problem. I didn't mean to mislead you with my comment about my parents.

    Really, my problem is how to be sure that they know that I value and appreciate both of them equally even as they are treated differently, both by me and by the world in general. That's a much more challenging problem, yes?

    Texas Summer: I'm a diehard feminist, so if I had a daughter who wanted to play football, she would. grin Heck, I always wanted to play football myself!

    But regardless, I think you're right, LMom, that saying to a child "I'm not sure I can HS you and get you what you need as well as the school can" or "You can't go to the cool DYS activity" are quite complicated to explain well...


    Kriston
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    I just realized that I forgot to say thanks, Texas Summer, for the note about HSing one kid and not the other seems to be pretty normal in your PG group. That's nice to hear, because I think it will seem odd to many of the people in my HS group. They're all very nice and seem quite nonjudgemental, but they do seem to have a momentary <blink> when I say that we have to leave some event to take DS3 to preschool. If preschool makes 'em blink, what will they think about DS3 going to public school?

    *sigh*

    It's nice to know that my considering it isn't as weird or random as it might seem on its face...


    Kriston
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    That's nice to hear, because I think it will seem odd to many of the people in my HS group. They're all very nice and seem quite nonjudgemental, but they do seem to have a momentary <blink> when I say that we have to leave some event to take DS3 to preschool.

    Today I went to my first get together for new/may be hs. I too got the look when I said that DS3 would be in the preschool next year. Fortunately there was somebody else who will be putting their younger one in preschool and hs the older one.


    LMom
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    I just realized that I forgot to say thanks, Texas Summer, for the note about HSing one kid and not the other seems to be pretty normal in your PG group. That's nice to hear, because I think it will seem odd to many of the people in my HS group. They're all very nice and seem quite nonjudgemental, but they do seem to have a momentary <blink> when I say that we have to leave some event to take DS3 to preschool. If preschool makes 'em blink, what will they think about DS3 going to public school?

    *sigh*

    It's nice to know that my considering it isn't as weird or random as it might seem on its face...


    Kriston, I know quite a few HS families. Those I know do it as more of a lifestyle choice. You (IMO) are doing it as an educational choice. I think you'll make the right educational choice when needed. You've already show that you are flexible and not afraid to change quickly for the benefit of the child.

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    Kriston Offline OP
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    Thanks, OHG. You're right that our plan, certainly, is for DH and I to respond to the individual needs of our kids. If I can just figure out what those needs are and persuade the kids that this is what we're doing...

    I think your observation about HSing is 100% accurate though: HSing as a lifestyle choice is different than what we're doing.

    Anyway, thanks for the kind words. smile


    Kriston
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    kcab - I got Siblings without Rivalry from the library today and have only read a few pages but I can tell I like it already! The first few pages go into what I've been going through (my kids fighting way too much) and it's nice to feel like I'm not the only one - which I knew I wasn't, but you know what I mean. Thanks for the recommendation!

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    Originally Posted by OHGrandma
    Originally Posted by Kriston
    I just realized that I forgot to say thanks, Texas Summer, for the note about HSing one kid and not the other seems to be pretty normal in your PG group. That's nice to hear, because I think it will seem odd to many of the people in my HS group. They're all very nice and seem quite nonjudgemental, but they do seem to have a momentary <blink> when I say that we have to leave some event to take DS3 to preschool. If preschool makes 'em blink, what will they think about DS3 going to public school?

    *sigh*

    It's nice to know that my considering it isn't as weird or random as it might seem on its face...


    Kriston, I know quite a few HS families. Those I know do it as more of a lifestyle choice. You (IMO) are doing it as an educational choice. I think you'll make the right educational choice when needed. You've already show that you are flexible and not afraid to change quickly for the benefit of the child.

    DD9 will most likely be homeschooled next year, which is purely an educational necessity. DS3 OTOH, will go to preschool next year and we will take it year by year with him. Due to some birthing issues, he has some speech delays and I don't see the same GT traits in him. But he has his own talents, which are now emerging, so who knows. I think it will be strange to HS one and not the other, but that's how it will be with us for a while.

    I understand those who HS out of religious or other reasons, but I sometimes wonder what those families do if one the kids would thrive better in a school? I know a family of 8 that HS and I would say that 2 of the children truly do not want to HS. They are going through teenage phase and refuse to complete assignments out of rebellion. The mom is beside herself as she fears they will not complete high school.

    I look at both my children as individuals and we make individual choices for them as long as it doesn't disturb our family harmony.

    Jen

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