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    Joined: Sep 2008
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    DD6 is definitely gifted, and our psychologist who did her IQ testing tells us that she needs to be in the amazing program for exceptional gifties that our DD11 is in. However, the psychologist also found an LD that is holding DD6 back on both the IQ test and the achievement test. Apparently DD6 doesn't visually process numbers and letters correctly. I have personally seen her describe numbers like 23 as 32, etc. This also means that she has trouble figuring out which math operator is what, so she adds when she should be subtracting, etc. She does a fantastic job with math orally, so we know she knows this stuff. It is also affecting her writing. Her reading is awesome, but I have definitely seen issues with her transposing letters as well. I think she was such an early reader that she has already learned how to deal with the LD in her reading, so it did not affect her scores.

    The psychologist believes that this issue prevented her from doing well on the block design test, something about DD6 perceiving the blocks backwards???

    Anyway, we already started her in school a year early, so while she just turned 6 a week ago, she is in first grade. She came home last week telling me that she "might be too big for first grade" because she already knows "this stuff".

    We are trying to accomplish two things. Our short-term goal is to get her into their standard pullout gifted program while we figure out how to help her with the LD. Hopefully after we address the LD, we can retest her for the amazing gifted program. So our longer term goal is to address the LD so we can find out what her true potential is.

    The immediate problem is that the school is planning to use the TerraNova to test her for the normal gifted pullout program any day now. I suspect she won't make the cut. Is there anything I can be doing right away to help her learn the math operators or anything else that may help?

    Then, I'd like advice on what we should be doing in general to help her with the LD. The psychologist recommended a certain tutor who works with these kinds of kids, so we will likely do that, but any other ideas?

    To give you a bit more background, DD11 also did not make it into the normal pullout gifted program the first time she was tested. That school also told us that she was not "that gifted" before she easily tested into the amazing all-gifted, all the time, program for exceptionally gifties. We had a terrible experience with DD11 because by the time we got her into the great program, she had given up on school. We are trying to avoid a similar situation with DD6, but I am feeling like we are on the same exact path :-(

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

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    Did the psychologist administer any tests beyond the IQ tests? It would be helpful to see how she did on tests that measure visual perception, visual memory and visual integration. Reversing letters and or numbers is not uncommon at age 6. The visual system is still developing.

    If your psychologist gave you a full evaluation report that includes test scores, interpretation and recommendations, this would be the first step to understanding what exactly the potential LD might be. If he or she did not provide such information, I would contact her to get more clarity. The good news is that your child is still young and developing. If intervention and remediation is needed, you are catching it early - and this generally leads to more favorable outcomes since the brain has more plasticity at this age and usually responds better to interventions.

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    If the psych report includes discussion of the deficit in visual processing, you should provide the school with the full report and request that your child not be assessed with a visual test as it would be an invalid measure of her ability and would not be accessible to her as a result of her disability. Did the psych report also indicate that her verbal factor index score should be taken as the more reliable indicator of her intellectual functioning? The psych who tested my son, who had obvious deficits in visual processing, motor skills, and visual-motor integration, included this finding in the report.

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    If her issue is really a problem with visual processing, the difficulty with helping her "learn" the math operators isn't that she doesn't "know" what they are supposed to look like, but that she can't reliably tell what she is looking at.

    A few things that can help develop visual processing skills include "hidden picture" games, "find the differences" games, video games like "Math Blaster" that require visual tracking and discrimination to advance, etc.


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    Originally Posted by WannaBeGTEduc
    DD6 is definitely gifted, and our psychologist who did her IQ testing tells us that she needs to be in the amazing program for exceptional gifties that our DD11 is in. However, the psychologist also found an LD that is holding DD6 back on both the IQ test and the achievement test.
    Is the psychologist willing to call the Gifted Coordinator at the school and sit down with him/her to explain the situation? That seems like the best approach.

    I know that I resisted my son to play 'first person shooter' video games, because of the content for longer than his friends, but eventually gave in in hopes that it would improve his visual tracking system.

    For now, I would follow the general advice to try and take a multisensory approach and make as many happy memories to the math symbols as possible - time go get out the dough and make math shaped cookies or pretzels. I think the process of decorating them with different textures and colors might help. Ask her verbally while you make a chart 'synesthesia' type questions about the various symbols...what color...what texture it's fur might be....which are masculine/feminine.....what are their internal structures like....hot or cold.

    Even if her visual systems is weak for now, my guess is that she'll score better on the test if you've had a pleasant afternoon or two designing the signs. You can tell her that Grinity asked for her help designing Amigurumi for the Math operation signs and she needs to know what color, age, gender, structure, personality and decorative features they might have.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amigurumi

    I think of adding and multiplying as female and subtracting and dividing as male, in a 'limit setting' kind of way. Multiplying and Dividing are the Mommy and Daddy, while adding and subtracting are the children (that's obvious, right? LOL@me) If your DD can come up with some kind of family tree for the symbols, and maybe eventually the numbers, and tells stories about them and gives them personalities, it seems likely that additional neuron tracks will get laid down in her brain asking her to look more carefully at the symbols, even if her ability to actually perceive them is weak, she'll make the most of what she has.

    The trick for you is to leave your worry at the door and actually make it totally fun, as it's much easier for the brain to work well when it isn't worried about a 'lion' popping out of the underbrush.

    DS and I never did this as a remedial thing, but these are the sorts of questions I'd use while waiting in line to keep him engaged and not fingering the goodies at the check out counter.

    DS claims that I could have taught him to read much earlier if I had taken an auditory approach...so he's had some sort of visual bottleneck. I toyed with taking him to a Behavior Optometrist for therapy, but didn't have the nerve. His seems to have worked itself out (He's currently playing Basketball for fun) and reports that he got obsessed with wall ball in 4th grade and it really changed his 3D perceptual abilities. My lack of spelling may be some similar visual bottleneck, as I certainly can't 'look' at words and see that they are misspelt (unless it's on the computer and there is a squiggly red line wink
    Originally Posted by for the curious, a side note
    I'm currently listening to an audible edition of V.S. Ramachandran's 'The Tell-Tale Brain: A Neuroscientist's Quest for what makes us Human'

    Hope that helps
    Grinity


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    Thanks all for your thoughts and advice. We had another curriculum night last night, so I am just now reading your replies and need to process them a bit more. However, I wanted to at least reply to say that the psychologist did not give a written report except for the score sheets for the WPPSI III and the WIAT II.

    I did take the score sheets to the gifted expert at the school. I hadn't thought of asking them to administer the TerraNova orally, and she didn't offer that option. They do the testing in groups, so I suspect they can't/won't do that without an IEP. The psychologist tells me that DD6 won't qualify for an IEP yet since these issues are considered normal for that age, even though she says they are not normal for someone of DD's level of giftedness.

    I also hadn't thought of asking the psychologist to talk directly with the school, but they do know each other well since this is "the" gifted psych. to use and her daughter is also in the 'amazing all-day, every-day gifted program' that DD11 is in. So I assume that me telling the school that this psych. did the evaluation would carry a lot of weight.

    Good idea Grinity about creating a hands-on way for her to learn about the signs. I'm such a logic-based person that I've been focusing on teaching her what the names mean and using tricks like "the equals sign is two lines and tells you that the two things on each side are the same" to help her distinguish it from the minus sign. But since I have no experience in this, I don't even know if she sees the equals sign on paper as two lines (sigh). I'm going to call the tutor today! And I'll work on 'baking' some signs with her this weekend, as well as check out that link on Amigurumi.

    Thanks again for everyone's help - you guys are the best!! I know I wouldn't have made it through DD11's issues a few years ago without your support, so I knew I was coming to the right place yesterday :-)

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    Originally Posted by WannaBeGTEduc
    I also hadn't thought of asking the psychologist to talk directly with the school, but they do know each other well since this is "the" gifted psych. to use and her daughter is also in the 'amazing all-day, every-day gifted program' that DD11 is in. So I assume that me telling the school that this psych. did the evaluation would carry a lot of weight.
    great news taht the psych and the school know each other - try and get 'out of the way' and let them deal with each other directly - soon!

    Good luck! I was more thinking about your DD designing the Amigurumi than creating them herself, but if she shows an interest, why not? seriously, any crochet project will be good for her visual discrimination, as it requires one to find those little loops and stick the hook in the right place.

    A little easier might be to 'just happen' to loose a button off your shirt and recruit DD to find a match among your collection. (Or something similar) Does your family play 'I spy with my little eye?' if so it doesn't just have to be color, you could add texture, size, temperature or anything.

    I think it's probably true that the more senses we engage, the more part of the brain are working the more connections, the more fun, the easier it is to overcome those pesky bottlenecks.

    Best Wishes,
    Grinity


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    I have heard from school-based occupational therapists that "vision therapy," provided by "developmental" or "behavioral optometrists," is not research based. But I worked for 6 years in a school district in which the Title 1 director sent parents to seek vision therapy. I swear, I would retest students for special ed., and not only did they no longer qualify, their stinking IQs would have gone up! You can't buy that in a bottle!

    I did spring for over a year's worth of vision therapy for my 2E when I noticed he couldn't do the block design subtest. My dad, Mr. Fiscally Conservative, said "Do it!", I assume thinking of the problems my brother has had, unremediated.

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    I used to work for OD optmetrists and MD ophthalmologists, as a JCAHPO certified and also degreed ophthalmic technician. At one point, I qualified for a dispensing opticians license and fit contacts and glasses under an MD and ODs supervision. I did home visits for the elderly in a geriatric vision clinic, etc.

    I was the senior clinic assistant to the head of Pediatric Vision Services at OSU, and later was a practice manager for an OD, MA, PHD optometrist and an OD, who later became an MD.

    There is a great deal that visual training, aka VT, or OT (aka orthoptic therapy), can do---and a great deal it cannot.

    It does not cure amblyopia, dyslexia or learning disabilities and it cannot make a 20/400 kid into a 20/20 kid, or even a 20/60 kid into a 20/20 kid. It cannot make your kid smarter, or a better reader.

    It can help improve visual perceptual speed/processing, making them a faster reader though, mainly thru improving their visual tracking speed/skills.

    It can help adapt to new tasks (but not permanently strengthen or realign) the internal eye muscles after surgery; it can help an amblyopia patient improve accommodative flexibility and focus, meaning that with proper eyewear correction, their focus can be sharper/better.

    If no significant learning or brain disability exists, visual therapy can be very helpful in some circumstances; if either exists or either are significant, it may do little to nothing.

    It can help athletes gain better eye-hand coordination, and help airplane pilots and competitive target-shooters advance their skill sets---mainly thru repetition of and focus on specific, targeted tasks geared to their sport or needs.

    Vision therapy does have a scientifc basis, it has been clinically tested, it is taught in physiology/optics courses at major universities, and peer-reviewed medical and optical journal articles do conclude that used properly, it has demonstrable efficacy and merit.

    But it is not a miracle cure. And at the very minimum, the OD (optometrist) or MD (opthalmologist), offering visual therapy services to their patients, should state the above before taking one dime from them, or from their concerned and possibly desperate parents.

    Signing up for an indefinite # of vision therapy (VT) sessions or buying packages which costs hundreds, if not thousands of dollars (to include the progress checks with the doctor, the therapist's time and the rental of home-use equipment) should not be something anyone does without really checking into it first.

    Just my 2 cents on that. We found it very helpful with our own DS, whose amblyopia was discovered by me when he was 3. He had to be patched for it for quite some time, and we did the VT in an ofice, and at home. It greatly helped in our situation--but I also once worked (albeit briefly) for an OD who sold it as a kind of holistic, spiritual cure-all, and promised that VT would make kids better readers, and therefore, possibly, smarter----and it certainly can't do any of that.

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    We did VT with our dd10, two years ago. I agree with the above poster. It was not a cure all nor the panecea for visual issues, but it helped our daughter with her visual tracking and her eye teaming skills. Additionally, doing these exercises allowed us to find her focal seizures! Getting the seizures under control has been a huge part of her doing better in school, however she is still dyslexic. That issue will be an ongoing source of issues with school.


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