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    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Originally Posted by Austin
    I think many of the so called elite schools are echo chambers that are overpriced and which saddle their students with too much debt. A different topic, for sure.

    Uh, that's the point of the elite schools. They're top quality credentials! And you learn what echos you need to echo in order to fit in.

    Look at law schools, for example. You've got your T3, T6, T14, and, generic law schools. The better the school, the less you actually have to work because the less your grades will matter. It's nearly impossible to fail out, even if you kind of actively try. If you go to a generic law school, you will have to actually attend class and work. They won't just hand you a diploma. Plus, you have to compete to win so that you become employable. All of them cost $150,000.

    You're not paying for an education. You're paying for a global brand. Actually learning things is a side effect and purely incidental to meeting relevant people and getting a diploma with the right name on it.

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    Originally Posted by Val
    I don't agree that kids are smarter today. Rather, I think they're better prepped for an easier SAT.

    I think you are correct, but there is a population of educated and affluent parents that is more "hands-on" and academically focused in their childrearing than parents were 30 years ago, and they use the Internet (for example this forum) to find opportunities for their kids (such as Johns Hopkins summer programs) and their high incomes to afford them. Their children may thus be able to accomplish more (or at least assemble more impressive resumes) before entering college. My parents did not try to advance me in math before a summer program prior to 7th grade, and they knew about it only because I had a math prodigy friend. Now anyone interested can learn about EPGY, AOPS, Singapore math, etc.


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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    Originally Posted by Val
    The story was more complicated than that. Sending a PM to avoid giving out too much info publicly.

    At any rate, the statistics I provided tell much more than a single anecdote. As the news story said, "Valedictorians are a dime a dozen" in the applicant pool.

    Add the quotas (they want the same proportion of racial groups each year, they reserve places for alumni children, etc. etc.), plus a higher bar to acceptance for financial aid applicants, and it's easy to see that a high IQ, good grades, and high SAT scores are no guarantee of admission.

    An NYT article states that British college admissions are more academically focused, which I agree with:

    http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/applying-to-college-in-the-united-kingdom/
    September 22, 2011, 10:05 PM
    Applying to College in the United Kingdom
    By REBECCA R. RUIZ

    ...

    Ms. Burn of Oxford stressed that universities in Britain are more interested in academically directed personal statements than they are in reflections on personal memories or demonstrations of character.

    Of the essay, she said: �It�s not the place to talk about the time you ate a pot brownie. It�s about what you want to study and why.�

    Ms. Burn emphasized that recommendations should be similarly to the point. �This isn�t a time to talk about how charming students are, or how they�re always on time,� she said. �Talk about their academic performance and be specific.�

    She also advised that people providing recommendations be wholly truthful and not write anything they would not want a student discovering: by law in Britain, applicants are allowed to read submitted recommendations of them.

    Applicant interviews are uncommon in Britain, excluding Oxford and Cambridge, both of which require them, Ms. Burn said. �There are just too many applicants to interview at most schools,� she said. �And the concept of the alumnae interview or student interview doesn�t exist for us.�


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Of the essay, she said: �It�s not the place to talk about the time you ate a pot brownie. It�s about what you want to study and why.�

    Most prospective college students are unable to answer questions about "what they want to study" and "why".

    Unless the "why" is money, and the what is "whatever major pays the most."

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