Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research Ruf's book question

A timely example is on the forum now: czechdrum's child is highly motivated to plow through schoolwork--far more than she is, she says--and she's guessing he'll be ready for college at 11 or 12.

Please note that kids who are *ready* for college-level work don't always do it. They study subjects more in-depth on their own or they study subjects never covered in elementary school like engineering or ballet or archaeology. Is it college-level work? No, but it's extra time spent on subjects they'd never see in elementary school, and that delays their move to college. Most parents tend to prefer this delay!

Many kids take online college-level courses at home, but do not attend a residential college (or even a community college) at age 10 or 12.

I don't recall anyone saying anything that even sounded like "ignore that" in this thread, though admittedly I didn't go back to reread every post. It sounds like you're wanting to read Ruf's book as if it were a how-to, and that's just not what it is. It's not what it's designed to be. Think *case study*!

There are lots of ways to be *capable* of college-level work without actually going to college.

Oh, and never underestimate the power of a starting point.

Chiming in here with my experience with DS8. He completed all of elementary school topics between the ages of 3-5. Probably more like 2-4, actually. When he was 4 I was spending my evenings learning about the Iliad (for the first time) so that he would have someone to help him set up Playmobil scenes of the Trojan war, as he was already an expert. By 5 he had read all the released Harry Potter books and was in middle school math. So age 5-7 for him was most of grade 6-7-8 topics. At 8 he still does some middle school level work, but mostly it's high school topics. His pace is very quick. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was taking college courses at 11-12. But if he wanted to take time off from school and travel, volunteer, etc., I would be supportive of that as well.

Just wanted to lend some support to whatever level we're talking about (5?) and that kids like this do exist. Also, as a parent, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum from hothousing - I'm more of an unschooler type. So, whatever our child learned, he learned because he decided that he wanted to do it and asked for resources.

Tara

If my DS6 continues at the pace he's on--and there's no guarantee that he wil, of course--he could probably finish the elementary school curriculum next year, actually, now that I think of it.

I'm dragging my heels against so much speed, which is why I didn't say that at first. I'm trying to take him deeper, not just faster. But reading Tara's comment made me think of it. If I let him work as fast as he could, he still wouldn't finish all of elementary school in a year--more like 18 months or 2 years--but that's pretty close to one year. And I think he's a level 4 on most academic subjects, not a level 5.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that level 5s could finish elementary school in a year or so.

Thank you for all these comments. There are so few kids finishing undergraduate school by 14 in the NYC metropolitan area, that they are profiled in the news. So if there is one per year, it didn't make Ruf's case and the IQ scores from Giga and Ruf's book didn't line up.

But in these profiles, the kids couldn't be held back from finishing college at 14. The parents usually tried to give them socialization through sports. One girl was a black belt in karate.

I thought this would be a level 5 example. I did not get this kid of profile from Ruf's book description of her level 5s. So I am wondering if there is a level 6 that would be like in the Giga.

I didn't think Ruf's book was a "how to" like I was renovating a kitchen. I may be non-linear but I am an engineer by education and pretty practical in my approach. As an applied engineer who went to Wall St and likes to trade derivative options, even a subjective science like economics has models.

So the bottom line, where I think we all agree, is that Ruf wrote a good layman's guide to the parent who wonders if their child is gifted. And then you figure it out. If you are in NYC, like me, you have gifted options. If you are in Wyoming (where I couldn't find a gas station for 50 miles) you seriously think about homeschooling. Luckily, the Internet and DVDs abound with stuff to supplement.

Now: I have asked about Marica Gross. What books do people recommend that are more practical. And I know bellaonline recomemnded one that I could not find, with four authors. Or maybe I could find it at amazon, but being a library addict didn't want to buy it. If the NYPL doesn't have it or borrow it from some university library, I look for something else.

And what I mean, is specific acceleration issues based on personality profiles. Like Ruf said that homeschooling is not recommended for the extrovert child.

I brought up acceleration is now an concern due to social changes, serious social changes at the middle school level and if you have a 9 year old, mixing with 11 and 12 year olds having oral sex that is a lot to deal with.

Ren

Hey, watch it, I don't live in Wyoming, but compared to Manhattan, I might as well. And I think it's a great place to have a level 4 kid.

We have a lot of dedicated teachers who get genuinely excited about a kid who loves to learn. We don't have a lot of kids going on to college and the teachers love it when they have a student with potential and bend over backwards to help him/her out. So life has been good for us and we haven't even felt the need to full grade accelerate.

A PG ranch kid (who grew up about 100 miles outside of the nearest town) who went to a mediocre high school just graduated from an local liberal arts college and then headed off to England on a Marshall scholarship (she was also first alternate for the Fulbright). PG kids can thrive in a variety of places.

I think there's plenty to worry about between the ages of 4 and 10 without adding oral sex to the mix yet. I'm not saying that you shouldn't plan ahead, but I don't think you have to put the cart before the horse.

What specifically are you looking for in a book, Wren? I could name several that might be useful, but most of the ones I turned to after Ruf were less general and more specific to my particular child's situation: HSing the gifted child, visual-spatial learner stuff, etc. The other general one people frequently like is the Gross book.

Keep in mind, there's not a whole lot of books out there on HG+ kids! GT kids in general, there's some stuff (though not as much as I would like). But HG+ kids? Slim pickings!

Maybe it would help for you to tell us what questions or concerns you have, and perhaps we can recommend something to help you with that problem or question?

I know you mentioned being disappointed with Ruf's work because she offered no help with how to talk to the school about your child. (That's why I mentioned the how-to thing, since it sounded like you wanted something more practical, less about understanding and more about action.) Are you looking for advocacy help?

Ditto that! I think once you figure out that your child is HG+, other parents are by FAR the best help you're going to find. Excellent point, Dottie!

I love this forum!

I had never heard of the Giga Society so I looked it up...and now I know why I'd never heard of them!

They have only 7 members in the world, and none of the tests they use to determine IQ scores are, to my knowledge, given with any regularity in the U.S.:

Test For Genius (Dutch, Eng, French, German)
Nemesis Test (Eng, Dutch)
Final Test, Laatste Test
Test To End All Tests, Test Der Testen
Cooijmans Intelligence Test (Eng, Dutch)
Space, Time and Hyperspace
Association Subtest (LTFG)
Analogies Subtest (LTFG)

I've never even heard of these tests. And a score of 190 or 196 is required (depending upon the test) in order to qualify for the group.

I realize these are people way out in the tippy-tip of the tail, yet I'd still bet money that there are more than 2 people in the U.S. who meet the qualifications for this group; if no one takes the tests, no one would ever know that they qualify. And if these tests aren't administered regularly in other parts of the world, those potential members are being missed, too.

Has anyone else heard of this group before?

Is Giga your watermark for defining PG, Wren? If so, I don't think you're operating within a framework that the rest of us are, or the entire rest of the GT community is, for that matter...

I certainly don't mean to pick a fight, but I think you might be coming at this whole GT thing from a very different place than we are, and it might affect the way we all communicate.

The Gila Society mirrors the DYS qualification requirements

http://www.gliasociety.org/

(I just found this while looking up Giga also)

There's a "Female Intelligence Test"? (It's one that Glia allows "if supervised.")

How interesting...